Lets Talk About UNDERCUTTERS!!!!

[AlphaFox]

I've also heard of people gambling with the MB, throwing up items at a lower price so they can buy the items even cheaper as well as taking back the item originally posted up.

[LineageRazor]

As usual, folks are under the impression that undercutters have WAY more power than they actually do. The real power - the ONLY power - is in supply and demand. Undercutting is just part of the process by which the real value of an item is determined.

Why is a Thavnairian Bustier worth 2.5 million gil? Is it because of the cost of ingredients? Is it because a seller decided to list it at that price? No, both these are wrong. It is worth 2.5 million gil, because buyers are willing to pay 2.5 million gil for it. That is the demand. However, the number of people actually willing and capable of paying that much for a piece of glamour equipment is fairly small. As long as only a few piece of equipment are on the market, you can maintain the 2.5 million gil price tag. But as more and more items hit the shelves, supply begins to exceed demand. A Bustier that doesn't sell isn't worth 2.5 million - it's worth NOTHING. So, in order to sell, you lower the price. PERHAPS if you'd been patient, you could have sold at 2.5 milliion eventually - but it's just as likely that, instead, still more Bustiers will have entered the market at a price lower than yours.

The same rules apply for items less exclusive than high-priced glamour gear. An item sells for 50k, and someone else lists for 40k? If the demand is there, that 40k item will sell quickly and with no impact on the market, because the 50k items will sell, as well. If the demand isn't there, others will start to relist for 40k, and the item will fall to its new, proper price of 40k. Even if (especially if!) a player floods a market with low cost items, once those items run out the supply will no longer be there and prices will go up.

Even when wealthy folks try to "control" a market by aggressively pricing low to try to starve other players out - they can succeed for a short time. But, since there is no entry cost to enter a market (no need to buy a buliding, hire employees, etc) players are free to leave a contested market, and easily return as soon as the wannabe mogul starts pricing normally again. Monopoly-style tactics that are devastating in real life are fleeting at best in-game.

Supply and demand is the only power driving the market. Put all thoughts of price-gouging, price-fixing, and undercutting out of your mind. The most anyone can do is cause a ripple or two in the pond. The level of the water is not something any individual can change for long.

[Eisen-Zorn]

"I'm mad that I can't control an economic system. Why can't economic activity be controlled? Why are people free to buy and sell as they want in this game?" - This thread.

People are always going to gouge and undercut. Just deal with it.

[Billeffingmurray]

It's also pretty stupid to completely over value the worth of your wares to the point that people can't but them. This market, like all free markets, needs regulation.

[nyttyn]

As usual, folks are under the impression that undercutters have WAY more power than they actually do. The real power - the ONLY power - is in supply and demand. Undercutting is just part of the process by which the real value of an item is determined.

Why is a Thavnairian Bustier worth 2.5 million gil? Is it because of the cost of ingredients? Is it because a seller decided to list it at that price? No, both these are wrong. It is worth 2.5 million gil, because buyers are willing to pay 2.5 million gil for it. That is the demand. However, the number of people actually willing and capable of paying that much for a piece of glamour equipment is fairly small. As long as only a few piece of equipment are on the market, you can maintain the 2.5 million gil price tag. But as more and more items hit the shelves, supply begins to exceed demand. A Bustier that doesn't sell isn't worth 2.5 million - it's worth NOTHING. So, in order to sell, you lower the price. PERHAPS if you'd been patient, you could have sold at 2.5 milliion eventually - but it's just as likely that, instead, still more Bustiers will have entered the market at a price lower than yours.

The same rules apply for items less exclusive than high-priced glamour gear. An item sells for 50k, and someone else lists for 40k? If the demand is there, that 40k item will sell quickly and with no impact on the market, because the 50k items will sell, as well. If the demand isn't there, others will start to relist for 40k, and the item will fall to its new, proper price of 40k. Even if (especially if!) a player floods a market with low cost items, once those items run out the supply will no longer be there and prices will go up.

Even when wealthy folks try to "control" a market by aggressively pricing low to try to starve other players out - they can succeed for a short time. But, since there is no entry cost to enter a market (no need to buy a buliding, hire employees, etc) players are free to leave a contested market, and easily return as soon as the wannabe mogul starts pricing normally again. Monopoly-style tactics that are devastating in real life are fleeting at best in-game.

Supply and demand is the only power driving the market. Put all thoughts of price-gouging, price-fixing, and undercutting out of your mind. The most anyone can do is cause a ripple or two in the pond. The level of the water is not something any individual can change for long.

that argument doesn't really work.

there are far too many people with an extremely poor grasp of economics whom flood the market with supply at prices that are legitimately far lower than what people are proven and willing to pay. which is something you rarely, if ever see in a true supply: demand model because, obviously, nobody wants to burn money. it's impossible to actually argue about supply and demand when the source of supply is unrealistic.

i mean you can like or hate undercutting but you can't argue they have no power on the items traded with any degree of of a constant basis, b/c undercutters are unrealistic as fuck in how low they'll sell things for in this game (literally hundreds of thousands of items sold for less than vendor price, for the most infamous example of this).

[sirDarts]

It's also pretty stupid to completely over value the worth of your wares to the point that people can't but them. This market, like all free markets, needs regulation.

There is no actual life-threatening result to be had from an unregulated in-game market. Thus there is ZERO reason for regulation, just let the natural flow of supply and demand do its job.

[Eye_Gore]

It's also pretty stupid to completely over value the worth of your wares to the point that people can't but them. This market, like all free markets, needs regulation.

Isn't a regulated free market contradicting? How can you have a regulated free market? Wouldn't that make it a controlled market?

[AlphaFox]

In a way I did kinda like how FF11 handled the market board, it was a new twist to me compared to other games, you offered what you thought it was worth and if it was available for that price, congratulations on your new toy. If it wasn't, well try again a little higher or keep walking....or maybe I was doing something horribly wrong in that game as I never got to in depth of it.

[sirDarts]

that argument doesn't really work.

there are far too many people with an extremely poor grasp of economics whom flood the market with supply at prices that are legitimately far lower than what people are proven and willing to pay. which is something you rarely, if ever see in a true supply: demand model because, obviously, nobody wants to burn money. it's impossible to actually argue about supply and demand when the source of supply is unrealistic.

i mean you can like or hate undercutting but you can't argue they have no power on the items traded with any degree of of a constant basis, b/c undercutters are unrealistic as fuck in how low they'll sell things for in this game (literally hundreds of thousands of items sold for less than vendor price, for the most infamous example of this).

If someone is selling for a very low price, they usually don't have too much of the item and just want to get rid of it = they don't influence the market in the long run. AND if they are actually selling for lower than the cost of materials, just buy them out and sell for actual amounts, you will save gil and time, they will sell what they want to sell, everyone is happy.

[Dimitrias]

Just remove the ability to see eveyones actuall price and let us only see price history, then bid and randomly get someones or nothing until you bid high enough for the item.

I liked the old ffxi ah much better than ffxiv's.