Why does Enochian have to be a pain in the neck?

[OneWingedSora]

http://ffxiv.consolegameswiki.com/wiki/Army%27s_Paeon
This is used extensively and to great effect in melee heavy groups. Moreover, not every raid, even competitive ones, have bards, so there's a certain perversity in judging the state of BLM by it.

Because Bards should be starting the fight with Army's Paeon right ? Aside from A2S, TP/MP aren't even an issue anymore due to fights having lots of downtime. And even assuming we get other fights with no breaks, Foes should still be played atleast twice per fight.

So yeah, your point about Foes not being used for the sake of "buffing" melees is invalid.

I would argue against that. It is extremely short duration, long cooldown, and the majority of hits the taken by the targets you'll be using it on ignore it entirely. There aren't many bosses where the tank gets completely hosed with magic damage within the first ten seconds of the fight. It's something we use because if we don't use it, it doesn't get used.

My support comment was intended to illustrate that you really can't justify the current state of Black Mages based on their support capabilities. In fact, this is the first time I've ever seen someone try. We're not Bards, and we can't accept inferiority in our primary role based on what we offer to others in our group, because what we offer to others in our group is trivial in nature.

Savage A3 and A1 tend to disagree with you. Apoc is used to a great extend there and helps make healers life much easier which leads to more healing DPS.

Also, did Apoc recently receive a nerf where it's only usable in the first ten seconds of the fight or something ? I don't understand your comment on that part. Please elaborate.

[Yeldir]

So yeah, your point about Foes not being used for the sake of "buffing" melees is invalid.

No, you using these incredibly narrow, specific examples of how BLM interacts with other classes which may not even be part of the group composition in what is essentially a fraction of the available content at 60 when this thread is about the general functionality and ease of use for Black Mages relative to the amount of damage they put out.

Specific to Army's Paeon, you and I both and everybody reading this know it's highly effective in environments where targets are available for long periods of time, and that this represents the majority of content at present.

You're attempting to deflect a broad problem with minutiae and I won't accept it.

Savage A3 and A1 tend to disagree with you. Apoc is used to a great extend there and helps make healers life much easier which leads to more healing DPS.

Also, did Apoc recently receive a nerf where it's only usable in the first ten seconds of the fight or something ? I don't understand your comment on that part. Please elaborate.

I said majority of fights. I never said it wasn't useful, ever. To elaborate on the ten seconds bit: In the majority of encounters there are very few circumstances in which a player can predict a window wherein a specific person will take so much magic damage that it is worth my time to stop blasting away to hit them with this buff.

If you feel you're making more and better use of it than I am, I would be quite interested to read a thread about how you're making use of it in the full spectrum of level 60 content available to groups and players.

But all this is, frankly, of trifling relevance to the broader scope of the discussion.

BLM utility isn't comparable to more universally recognized utility classes such as bard, so the idea that we should accept inferior damage output or an increased complexity of play for the utility we currently have is not rational. No one has ever claimed we were a utility class, and seeing you argue by proxy that it is, well, that's one of the more baffling things I've seen on these forums.