AST: Nocturnal vs Diurnal

[chumsy]

You're missing the most important part of Nocturnal Stance's Aspected Benefic. It's 354 mana cheaper than Adloquium and Aspected Benefic is instant cast (I value mobility a lot).

There's never a reason to be in Nocturnal because there hasn't been a fight in 3.x where we needed mitigation. SCH is just preferred over AST because the job is just better.

true, but i would just hate to see if in the future, every healer class would be picked over the AST. I remember playing as a SCH and ppl would hate having two SCH. The game should be playable with any combination of healers/dps/tank classes.

[PetiteMalFleur]

true, but i would just hate to see if in the future, every healer class would be picked over the AST. I remember playing as a SCH and ppl would hate having two SCH. The game should be playable with any combination of healers/dps/tank classes.

That's the issue right now. Ast brings zero utility to a group over whm/sch. Really hoping the incoming buffs fix that.

[Evane]

I'm currently leveling AST exclusively in dungeons to learn the job. So far (level 55) I've been using noct sect during trash pulls and diurnal sect during bosses. Haven't run into issues yet.

[Mclyde]

noctural stance add a "panic button" with Aspected Benefic (direct Hp + direct shield)

[justinjarjar]

Never use noct in dungs no point, since dirunal is ez for trash and bosses. Pop both HoTs and afk. Only reason I would use noct is if the other healer is an astro. The problem is not that astro can do the current (ez) content more of it does not add anything compared to the other healz. All the dungs in HW are a joke to heal anyways.

[zuzu-bq]

So far the only thing I found really weak on Nocturnal is Collective Unconscious. Aspected Benefic's Nocturnal Shield is really strong, some people just find it weak because its not as strong as Adloquium. But hey, its cheaper and instant! Being instant it means you'll have a better use of it after a Benefic cast and not before. While Scholars have a good use of Adlo casting it before a Physick. Aspected Benefic's regen is also pretty unique, having a tiny heal before the regen buff ticks feels really nice.

Aspected Helios is the only spell I don't like much on AST, since is either a weaker Medica II (less burst potency, same regen, less range) or a slower Succor (almost same shielding and potency, higher cast time). While Aspected Benefic has Astrologian unique touch (instant shield or small heal before regen), Aspected Helios doesn't.

Healer compositions, like tank compositions, are not a "you should do this" anymore. While during 2.x we had SCH/WHM being better than any double healer duo, I think any healer duo (including doubles) has its pros and cons and the "best" is just based on your whole party and not healers only. This statement is based on the lack of our hardcore endgame content and I'm saying this based on the content we have at the moment (patch 3.01). But you should really try to have two different healers because of diversity and Limit Break purposes (it fills slower if you have repeated classes/jobs). Plus, even double healers being somewhet viable, they're not optimal. Also take a note that while WHM lost his protect and stoneskin supremacy, he still is the only healer with Mind Party Bonus.

[Crater]

The only real problem with Nocturnal Sect is Aspected Benefic. In Nocturnal, it's only ever your best heal in hyper-specific, niche scenarios that rarely crop up, and even when you do find yourself in those scenarios, it doesn't justify that specificity by even being particularly good at the job.

The thing about Adloquium on Scholar is that in addition to being a strong shield, in addition to having the crit bonus, etc, Adloquium is also the Scholar's "Cure II": Between the 300 potency heal and 300 potency shield, it's effectively a 600 potency heal (that doesn't require Aetherflow stacks) as long as shields aren't expiring or being overwritten.
On Astrologian, though, they still have Benefic II when they're in Nocturnal Sect. If they need a big heal, that's still the go-to skill. It's stronger, and it's more MP-efficient (620 potency versus 500 [250 heal, 250 shield], ~.78 pot/MP on BII versus ~.71 on AB).

The result? Aspected Benefic is a worse choice than Benefic II unless you either A) need to be able to cast while on the move, or otherwise can't afford the cast time, or B) you absolutely need to "heal" someone up past their max HP by applying the shield.
Scenario A is nice when it happens, Nocturnal Benefic is good at that, but it doesn't happen often. Scenario B is the more common situation by far, except that at a 250 (*1.05) potency shield, it's strictly inferior to Adloquium, even without factoring in the crit bonus on Adlo.


A better version of Aspected Benefic in Nocturnal Sect would be "Heals for 125 potency, and applies a shield that nullifies three times the amount of HP healed". Same overall potency (500), but actually suited to the uses that the skill has. A stronger shield than a non-Crit Adlo, but still far weaker than a Crit Adlo, and with a much weaker direct heal. Then AST would have their staple heal (Benefic), their big heal (Benefic II), and their shield (Aspected Benefic), each of which would be very well suited to the different jobs they're all meant to do.

[Akyio]

I really like Nocturnal sect, because I used to play with SCH a lot back in the day, so shielding for me is fun. But yeah, it's a bit worse, actually quite a lot because it doesn't stack with time dilation and stuff.
On the other hand, one of sects will always be better than another one, it's like that people prefer Eos to Selene in dungeons.

One thing people forget though, is that Noc sect gives 5% passive in healing potency, which means that your aspected helios is 147 potency, which is just 3 potency behind scholars, so practically almost the same. Your benefict becomes also stronger and it's also cheaper in MP than WHM heal.

All in all I still rather stick to the idea of using Noc when WHM is in party, and Diurnal when SCH is another healer. It's just more fun, and adds a little chance to survive some situations.

Aspected Benefict is another story though, it should be able to crit like SCH adlo, or should just have as much potency as adlo.

[Vlady]

The only real problem with Nocturnal Sect is Aspected Benefic. In Nocturnal, it's only ever your best heal in hyper-specific, niche scenarios that rarely crop up, and even when you do find yourself in those scenarios, it doesn't justify that specificity by even being particularly good at the job.

The thing about Adloquium on Scholar is that in addition to being a strong shield, in addition to having the crit bonus, etc, Adloquium is also the Scholar's "Cure II": Between the 300 potency heal and 300 potency shield, it's effectively a 600 potency heal (that doesn't require Aetherflow stacks) as long as shields aren't expiring or being overwritten.
On Astrologian, though, they still have Benefic II when they're in Nocturnal Sect. If they need a big heal, that's still the go-to skill. It's stronger, and it's more MP-efficient (620 potency versus 500 [250 heal, 250 shield], ~.78 pot/MP on BII versus ~.71 on AB).

The result? Aspected Benefic is a worse choice than Benefic II unless you either A) need to be able to cast while on the move, or otherwise can't afford the cast time, or B) you absolutely need to "heal" someone up past their max HP by applying the shield.
Scenario A is nice when it happens, Nocturnal Benefic is good at that, but it doesn't happen often. Scenario B is the more common situation by far, except that at a 250 (*1.05) potency shield, it's strictly inferior to Adloquium, even without factoring in the crit bonus on Adlo.


A better version of Aspected Benefic in Nocturnal Sect would be "Heals for 125 potency, and applies a shield that nullifies three times the amount of HP healed". Same overall potency (500), but actually suited to the uses that the skill has. A stronger shield than a non-Crit Adlo, but still far weaker than a Crit Adlo, and with a much weaker direct heal. Then AST would have their staple heal (Benefic), their big heal (Benefic II), and their shield (Aspected Benefic), each of which would be very well suited to the different jobs they're all meant to do.

In order for that to be true the scholar would have to have so high of a crit to even reach a point of a crit going off that it would not matter. Astrologians having the shield you suggest would make them automatically stronger in the shielding department because they do not have to rely on crit for a stronger shield.

Never use noct in dungs no point, since dirunal is ez for trash and bosses. Pop both HoTs and afk. Only reason I would use noct is if the other healer is an astro. The problem is not that astro can do the current (ez) content more of it does not add anything compared to the other healz. All the dungs in HW are a joke to heal anyways.

I am glad you are not a healer if you do not understand the value of Nocturnal Stance. A faster response shield at a critical time with a decent hp buffer will have many chances to save possible wipes and deaths as the expansion moves onward over the next year. Scholar threads about how much the job sucked was the staple the first half year of 2.0 but eventually people learned the true strength of the job. And the only real buffs scholar received back then was a smarter ai for fairy and lustrate changes.

[Isala]

I've found Nocturnal Sect most useful when I have a really squishy tank. Using a Diurnal Aspected Benefic on them is almost a waste, since their health drops so much faster than the Regen can do any work, so I end up spamming Benefic II just to keep them alive. With Nocturnal Aspected Benefic, I can at least get enough of a breather to alternate Benefic and Aspected Benefic.