Why does Enochian have to be a pain in the neck?

[TatsuyaSumaru]

Sorry but the whole "git gud" argument is absolute garbage. Just because a someone may be good at the new mechanics of BLM does not make it a "good", "fun" or "rewarding" system. Enochian is an interesting concept on paper, but is implemented poorly. There is literally 0 zero room for error. There's a difference between having to read situations and being familiar with fights and dealing with a clunky buff that one slight misstep causes you to lose a HUGE portion of your dps. It's the most punishing class which is not worth the effort you have to put into. You can do more damage on other classes that require less work and are less punishing - that are indeed more fun. I used to love BLM, but in it's current state, it just feels like there's way too much work to maintain any form of damaging presence.

[Kiara]

Sorry but the whole "git gud" argument is absolute garbage. Just because a someone may be good at the new mechanics of BLM does not make it a "good", "fun" or "rewarding" system. Enochian is an interesting concept on paper, but is implemented poorly. There is literally 0 zero room for error. There's a difference between having to read situations and being familiar with fights and dealing with a clunky buff that one slight misstep causes you to lose a HUGE portion of your dps. It's the most punishing class which is not worth the effort you have to put into. You can do more damage on other classes that require less work and are less punishing - that are indeed more fun. I used to love BLM, but in it's current state, it just feels like there's way too much work to maintain any form of damaging presence.

I completely agree.

With a new Expansion Pack (3.0), you'd think it'd be a celebration of all things new, fun, exciting. NONE of those words describe Black Mage in 3.0.

As someone else stated, even with Ley Lines (and Enochian), the types of encounters the Combat Team are designing (with lots of gimmicks, forced "get out of the way", etc.) are fundamentally *counter* and the opposite of what you need to fully use Black Mage's Ley Lines and Enochian.

It's one thing if they made Black Mage to be "#1 Top DPS" Job, but the cost is completely expert usage of Enochian and Ley Lines, but it's not (re: Raid Bosses). And even if you do everything right, the reports from veteran BLMs are that they're not even close to Top Tier DPS. And if you can't get perfect usage? Your DPS plummets to the bottom.

It's just poorly designed, and in the end, *EVERY* single time you get forced to interrupt / move reinforces to the player how much they HATE the Black Mage's new abilities. It's just NOT FUN.

And jobs shouldn't be designed that way, right?

[Yeldir]

And even if you do everything right, the reports from veteran BLMs are that they're not even close to Top Tier DPS.

Well, it isn't quite so bad as this. BLM is competitive in most fights, played perfectly. It typically trails good melee dps by 50 or so. I'd say we are close to top tier, we just aren't top tier, and we're a hell of a lot harder than a Silver Medal DPS class should be. We agree in principle, definitely.

[Xisin]

the reports from veteran BLMs are that they're not even close to Top Tier DPS. And if you can't get perfect usage? Your DPS plummets to the bottom.

Okay, I actually talk to the blms that are good for the most part or atleast follow their comments on the forums, I am a good blm, and veteran one. Maintaining 1100+ dps on savage A3 is top tier damage and I'm not sure where you are coming from, the dps dips in the add phase only due to transition and in which case blm still is strong in that add phase, I can maintain 1100+ fairly consistently WITHOUT bard available to me, I'm sure other blms who have access to a freaking bard are doing better. BLM is great in every turn so far in savage. It's in a good place balance wise.

Ask ANY Other top tier blm in this thread (there are others besides me in here.) and you will likely get the same response.



The issue seems to be stemming from mid-tier/lower tier players who don't see this content due to dps checks/time or whatever, and for whatever reason these players seem to think the game should be balanced around them.

Also if you really believe that bard should be leading a fight with paeon then you really need to rethink that. Foe should be played on pull, regardless, there is absolutely no reason not to on any fight.

This patch is the best place blm has been in in a very long time. in 2.5 we were completely outclassed unless an aoe phase occurred and even then you were playing catch up at that point vs any competent melee (who are also aoeing in this phase harder than their ST). Even more annoyingly smns were complaiing that BLMS were op (lol) in that patch. This patch is the closest casters have EVER been to melee since 2.0 basic back when the first fire of astral fire gave you umbral ice cast times.

[drizzle234]

This patch is the closest casters have EVER been to melee since 2.0 basic back when the first fire of astral fire gave you umbral ice cast times.

Xisin I couldn't agree more. Having a blast with 3.0 BLM especially when I'm on top of the charts in savage XD.

Makes me sad to see all the negativity from so called blms.....

[Yeldir]

Xisin I couldn't agree more. Having a blast with 3.0 BLM especially when I'm on top of the charts in savage XD.

Makes me sad to see all the negativity from so called blms.....

Link to parses, please.

Okay, I actually talk to the blms that are good for the most part or atleast follow their comments on the forums, I am a good blm, and veteran one. Maintaining 1100+ dps on savage A3 is top tier damage and I'm not sure where you are coming from, the dps dips in the add phase only due to transition and in which case blm still is strong in that add phase, I can maintain 1100+ fairly consistently WITHOUT bard available to me...

You still haven't answered my questions. I will restate them. I would like specific answers.

Do you think it's OK for Black Mage, a pure DPS class with zero support capability besides EFAE (and, to make Sora happy, rarely Apoc), to be substantially more complicated and demanding than most melee classes, while being flat out inferior damage to them?

Do you dispute the idea that Black Mages do less damage than melee classes of equal skill in single target environments and more or less level playing fields? (Single target means you're hitting one thing the majority of the time, plus thundercloud proc rotating, even if there's more than one target to choose from.) I'll ask this one another way, to help you answer: Do you feel like you are doing as much or more damage as melee classes in these encounters?

Do you dispute the idea that managing astral ice, astral fire, enochian, our mp bar, and thunder casts/procs, coupled with our lengthy cast times on everything, makes Black Mage a more difficult class to play than those same melee classes?

[Xisin]

Link to parses, please.



You still haven't answered my questions. I will restate them. I would like specific answers.

Do you think it's OK for Black Mage, a pure DPS class with zero support capability besides EFAE (and, to make Sora happy, rarely Apoc), to be substantially more complicated and demanding than most melee classes, while being flat out inferior damage to them?

I haven't answered this question because we disagree on the basis of it, I don't think blm is any harder or easier than the melee, right off the bat there we disagree, I also disagree that blm is inferior damage. You make assumptions that I think are incorrect in this question.

Do you dispute the idea that Black Mages do less damage than melee classes of equal skill in single target environments and more or less level playing fields? (Single target means you're hitting one thing the majority of the time, plus thundercloud proc rotating, even if there's more than one target to choose from.) I'll ask this one another way, to help you answer: Do you feel like you are doing as much or more damage as melee classes in these encounters?

I answered this already. It depends on the fight, in A1, Ravana, parts of A3 we do, A4 is based entirely off who lucks out on mechanics... Other fights we don't

Do you dispute the idea that managing astral ice, astral fire, enochian, our mp bar, and thunder casts/procs, coupled with our lengthy cast times on everything, makes Black Mage a more difficult class to play than those same melee classes?

Again, I don't think it is any more or less complex, other dps get punished for screwing up, the only time our punishment is severe is if we screw the pooch on the first enochian rotation and that is most likely because you interrupted a cast, got greedy and did the full rotation anyway when you should have ended the chian with 1 fire 4 less, resulting in you dropping out of AF before you finished the blizzard 3 cast. Difficulty is entirely subjective, it's a flimsy argument to run with and no this job isn't difficult for me. I haven't played a melee class in HW so I can't offer an educated opinion on the difficulty of dragoon, monk or ninja other than what my static mates have to say about it.

Happy? I never really avoided any questions. After looking at your lodestone you can't really be the judge of class difficulty either, you seem to strictly be blm atm. How far have you progressed? your lodestone achievements are blocked.