IF ya got money

[Rufalus]

For balance I will throw in my support for snugglebutt because I see most people speaking against them. Conversation is a little too heated here, but he/she is very good at reasoning and I agree we don't need to be so hyperbolic about the state of crafting. I see good and bad things in the new system. Forum response has been highly negative, but in-game I see people enjoying it. I have a crafter friend who actually loves the steep grind because she wanted a more meaty endgame progression for craft and gather.

[Jerichai]

For balance I will throw in my support for snugglebutt because I see most people speaking against them. Conversation is a little too heated here, but he/she is very good at reasoning and I agree we don't need to be so hyperbolic about the state of crafting. I see good and bad things in the new system. Forum response has been highly negative, but in-game I see people enjoying it. I have a crafter friend who actually loves the steep grind because she wanted a more meaty endgame progression for craft and gather.

See...I'd have no issue with Snugglebutt's opinion if I didn't so frequently see unnecessary personal attacks across so many threads. The conversation is getting heated partly because Snugglebutt is fanning the flames with pointless attitude.

As for your friend, I would ask how dedicated...and to a lesser extent, how wealthy...a crafter they are. If they're fairly well off already, it may explain their opinion. Those with a big network or a large sum of guild probably won't flinch as much at this system. It's everyone else many are concerned with with regards to this new system. Those just starting out, or those not as well equiped financially/network-wise/etc, are in for a long, hard grind that may not even pay off in the end. Again, those who are already well established don't have to worry too much about the risks. Some, however, are starting to feel like they no longer have a place in the crafting meta-game.

Note: My response isn't to try to attack/invalidate your friend's opinion, just to better understand where there stance may be coming from.

[Snugglebutt]

Those with a big network or a large sum of guild probably won't flinch as much at this system. It's everyone else many are concerned with with regards to this new system.

I do not consider that part to be true because many of the most vocal against the script system and the changes to crafting have admitted to being extremely rich including I believe the OP who bragged about it in another thread. If what you said was true then those very wealthy people would be less vocal than the poorer people. I myself am not wealthy.

[Jerichai]

I do not consider that part to be true because many of the most vocal against the script system and the changes to crafting have admitted to being extremely rich including I believe the OP who bragged about it in another thread. If what you said was true then those very wealthy people would be less vocal than the poorer people. I myself am not wealthy.

Okay...so you've been saying how the people on the forum complaining don't represent a majority, yet you turn around and use your single, personal opinion as justification for dismissing other's opinion...

Also, my comment wasn't meant to be all encompassing. I was merely point out what I observed as a noteworthy piece of the pie of those voicing concern: Those that are worried that the new system is too prohibitive for those towards the low end of the spectrum. Just because you and however many of your friend disagree doesn't mean that opinion doesn't exist.

[Jerichai]

To turn it back on you whom made a claim based on your personal opinion which proposed that as you put it was the poor who dislikes the system more while the rich are more okay with it to which I do not agree with and explained why are now using the majority vs personal opinion to attempt to dismiss my own despite the fact in my response to you I never said majority or minority. I just said many (not majority or minority) of the most vocal against the system have admitted to being part of that extremely rich crowd that you claimed would care less about it and by proxy your personal perception was flawed by such peoples own admission. You also said you wanted to know how wealthy I was, I answered that question.

Actually no, what I was trying to say there wasn't my personal opinion, rather it was my attempt to consolidate a general feeling I've seen from multiple individuals across separate threads (as well as a handful of people I've talked to in game). Nor was itmeant to represent a prevailing opinion, just one part of a multi-sided argument.

You on the other hand have several times basically side 'your wrong because I believe this'. Well that's great...but why does your opinion hold more weight than others. It's fine to present your opinion, as well as whether or not other people support your opinion, but that doesn't mean you get to decide who gets to have an opinion or how they express it if it goes against your view point.

But then again you're one of those kind of people trying to have reasonable discussion with is nearly impossible. You make rules on how people are allowed to respond...but then never follow them:
-You say people shouldn't be emotional/hateful in their arguments; you frequently belittle others in your responses, calling them things like idiots.
-You claim people don't have a valid opinion because they don't represent a statistical minority; you use a handful of personal contacts (with unverifiable credentials) and your own opinions to tell people they're wrong.

Also...the question about wealth wasn't directed at yourself, but I doubt you're reading to comprehend at this point.

[Seyb]

IF ya got money...

... buy all 2 star mats on the market board and gift them to fellow crafters... or put them back up to make more money.
... craft your own BiS set within a week and wonder why there's nothing to craft that needs your stats.
... think about the baby before you get all crazy.

If you don't have a lot of gil (or just don't want to throw it away)...

... find the cheapest item to craft for red turn ins, so it doesn't cost you an arm and a leg.
... upgrade your gear one by one, starting with the 180 mainhand and body.
... make connections with other crafters that aren't omnicrafters either, so you can complement each other.