Every Tank should have dps/tank stance be off-GCD and not reset their combo

[Reynhart]

Lol, so you have 10k HP, you're about to take 10k dmg. You hit defiance. You still have 10k HP, you get hit for 10k and are dead.... Yep, that's immediate effectiveness *sarcasm.

No, it's "You're a bad tank, because you didn't use a cooldown to survive a tankbuster"

[Giantbane]

There is actually a reason why Shield Oath/Grit is on the GCD while Defiance is not. Defiance merely increases your maximum HP, but doesn't heal you to top yourself off, whereas using Shield Oath immediately gives you 20% mitigation. If you're at 10k life, going into defiance won't help you against a 10k ability unless you get healed up. If shield oath is off GCD, you pretty much have an on demand rampart.

Putting Oath stances and Grit off the GCD are too powerful as it highly minimizes the risk of going into dps stances.

too powerful? exaggerate much?

It still costs a resource to go into/out of the tank stance for DRK/PLD. War pays the cost in HP. For the DRK this is a primary resource, arguably more important than the 20% hp (lot easier for a healer to restore the HP than for anyone, including the DRK to get that mana back). For the PLD, who cares, they're supposed to be the easier, more straightforward tank. The risk is that you take more damage while you're in DPS stance, that's more than enough.

If you took the oaths/grit off the GCD it wouldn't imba anything. It would just be a nice QoL change for DRK/PLD, and that's it.

[Einheri]

I will sign off on this if you also have defiance heal for the hp it adds. This will have all 3 tanks instantly receive full benefit from their tank toggle with out losing a combo or gcd or ability or need help from another player. All fair? All good?

[Arkard]

If you took the oaths/grit off the GCD it wouldn't imba anything. It would just be a nice QoL change for DRK/PLD, and that's it.

And then what? Defiance/Deliverance still has a cooldown while Shield/Sword Oath/Grit do not? Yeah, no, totes balanced.

It's not a QoL change. You don't even know what that means. People throw around that term and you haven't the foggiest idea of what it means for the game. You can't just use a term like that as an absolute when you have zero idea of how it affects the game.

Queueing for a dungeon with a chocobo could be called a QoL change. What is being proposed here is a balancing change. It may not seem like a huge balancing change to you, because you haven't the means to test what it does for encounters. Still, it is a class change, so call it what it is.

Stop pretending this was a clunky implementation for an ability, which is what QoL changes correct. There's a reason Defiance and Deliverance were both explicitly programmed to work the way they work and other tank stances were not. You can't even make the claim that it is an outdated implementation of stances because they did the same god damn thing with a class that came out a fucking month ago.

It is a design decision. Not an oversight. Is the decision based on what people in this thread are speculating it's based on? Maybe. Maybe not. But it is a choice the design team made, for whatever reason, and they are unlikely to unmake that choice based on a five-page thread that provides, at best, flimsy reasons to do so.

So far the only argument made for this change is in the OP: 'There isn't a single reason not to.'

Really? That's the argument you're making for this change?

[pandabearcat]

I'd be fine with it having a cooldown.

A cooldown does not inconvenience it in the slightest.

No WAR ever went "dammit, I wish I could have the super pro GCD using combo destroying stance dance repeatedly over 10 seconds, instead I just have to settle for not interrupting my rotation and gaining all the benefits instantly, but have to wait 10 seconds like a pleb which I was going to anyway, darn it, those paladins are so overpowered with their ability to spend 2 GCDs over and over to swap inside of 10 seconds! argh! Nerf pal".

Heh.

Also: the argument that defiance doesn't provide its benefits immediately is pretty weak. It does, unless you get one shotted. Are you getting one shotted often?

And as Reynhart said below...you don't even lose your wrath. That is ridiculously good! Do you not see how good that is?

Allowing pal/drk to drop their shield stance on ogcd does not even come close to the fluidity of how war tanks work now, but it will help.

And it is a QoL change. The amount of difference it makes is on the whole very minor, but provides more interesting gameplay.

As to your chocobo example, I might as well say that THAT is a balance change, cause you'd no longer have to pay for an extra gysahl green, nor would you have to do a few leves/stand in town/do hunts or what have you without your chocobo - and a chocobo adds more dps/healing than losing one GCD. So yea...bad example there.

[Reynhart]

There's a reason Defiance and Deliverance were both explicitly programmed to work the way they work and other tank stances were not.

There WAS a reason when WAR didn't have a second stance, and had to build its wrath stack from scratch before being able to use any skill.

And back in the days, I found it totally justified from that alone.

[stoxastic]

They should add block rate to WAR axes and DRK swords, y'know, as a QoL change. Quality of my WAR's life will greatly improve if I can block with my axe.

[Giantbane]

And then what? Defiance/Deliverance still has a cooldown while Shield/Sword Oath/Grit do not? Yeah, no, totes balanced.

It's not a QoL change. You don't even know what that means. People throw around that term and you haven't the foggiest idea of what it means for the game. You can't just use a term like that as an absolute when you have zero idea of how it affects the game.

Queueing for a dungeon with a chocobo could be called a QoL change. What is being proposed here is a balancing change. It may not seem like a huge balancing change to you, because you haven't the means to test what it does for encounters. Still, it is a class change, so call it what it is.

Stop pretending this was a clunky implementation for an ability, which is what QoL changes correct. There's a reason Defiance and Deliverance were both explicitly programmed to work the way they work and other tank stances were not. You can't even make the claim that it is an outdated implementation of stances because they did the same god damn thing with a class that came out a fucking month ago.

It is a design decision. Not an oversight. Is the decision based on what people in this thread are speculating it's based on? Maybe. Maybe not. But it is a choice the design team made, for whatever reason, and they are unlikely to unmake that choice based on a five-page thread that provides, at best, flimsy reasons to do so.

LEAVE BRITTANY ALONE

PLD stance is a spell that costs mana. It's quite likely that at the time it was created, spells that cost resources had to be on the GCD due to either programming or an overarching design decision that all abilities that cost resources (TP/Mana) had to be on the GCD. Grit was simply half copied off of the PLD.

Heavensward has begun introducing abilities that cost resources off the GCD (Dark Passenger). So they have shown new willingness to break this paradigm. With that, the stances are a good candidate for treating the same way because it has a fairly limited impact on the game. An opinion I base on having played the game, and used both the WAR & NIN stance abilities which basically function as requested. It's not super hard to imagine what the impact would be.

[pandabearcat]

They should add block rate to WAR axes and DRK swords, y'know, as a QoL change. Quality of my WAR's life will greatly improve if I can block with my axe.

Sure, if we take away your parry. I don't care. You are making a facetious argument based on an invalid analogy between the two requests. Please, at least try to debunk with reasons.

It is odd though that I don't see any pld or drk contesting the idea...

Even though it doesn't even affect warriors in any way.

Hrm...very odd.

Noone ever said "hrm yes, well we need to decide between a pld and a war for our static. WHAT'S THAT? PLD CAN NOW STANCE DANCE OFF GCD? Alright, sorry FC wars, just go delete your accounts right now, you are completely and utterly worthless and we will never bring you".

Similarly, no player said "hrm, should I play pld or war? Oh whats that? WAR can go into deliverance/defiance w/o needing a GCD? Wow who would ever need those other two jobs? Screw that all war erry day"

[Einheri]

Hold on. Hold on. I missed it until now. The op doesn't want a qol or balance change, they want to be able to use their tank toggle as a cooldown. Oh that makes more sense now.

Sword oath tanking here comes a big hit swap to shield oath take the hit swap back to sword till the next big hit.

Yeah that works. Lets do it! Love this idea.