Every Tank should have dps/tank stance be off-GCD and not reset their combo

[Meleoffs]

There isn't a single good reason not to.

This isn't singling out warriors - they have it the way every tank should. It should be seamless, to promote tank dps strategies, instead of a painful GCD and combo wipe.

Even healers have their dps stance offGCD.

Warriors even get to keep their abandon/wrath stacks.

It isn't their "niche" it is something all tanks do now and should be able to benefit from.

Xeno explained it on his stream this way: Warrior doesn't get their mitigation from defiance immediately. They need to be healed and hit a gcd to get the benefit from it. PLD and DRK get it instantly when the stance goes up. That is why WAR tank stance/dps stance is ogcd and pld/drk is on the gcd. If you want to keep arguing this, I will add: Keeping stacks is irrelevant. You still need to hit a GCD to get the benefit, not to mention it only lasts 5 seconds. The rest of the "tank stance" requires you to be healed to even get the benefit. Either way, all 3 tanks have to hit a gcd to get tank stance benefits.

War also has one of the most difficult methods of mitigation. Their 2nd most reliable defensive "cd" requires a build up. If you want to max DPS you spend it as soon as you get 5 stacks. If you need to have it sooner you have to burn infuriate. Doing that removes the ability to triple fell cleave in your next berserk rotation unless you wait 60 seconds on infuriate which is a loss. It only lasts 5 seconds so it requires impeccable timing, and pairing with Storms Eye and another CD to get close to PLD mitigation. Not to mention Holmgang is NOT Hallowed Ground. Not even close.

[pandabearcat]

People still hung up about the "instant mitigation" thing?

Do paladins not need healing after getting hit? Is there something I'm missing here? Do you guys still not understand how increased healing and increased mitigation work?

Unless you will die before getting any heals all 3 stances behave similarly.

Here let me paint you a picture.

Paladin has 20k hp.
Warrior has 20k hp.

Boss swings for 10k.

Paladin turns on shield oath, gets hit with 8k, down to 12k hp.
Warrior turns on defiance, has 20k (24k) hp, gets hit for 10k down to 10k hp.

WHM heals twice for 8k hp total

Paladin gets healed to 12k + 8k = 20k hp.
Warriors gets healed to 10k + 9.6k = 19.6k hp.

Warrior turns on deliverance, pali turns on sword oath, voila same hp.

In fact warrior actually has an advantage here, they can turn on Defiance on GCD later, after the attack lands and before your heals do, allowing one more ability in dps stance. Unless of course they were hopping into defiance for inner beast, which is something other tanks cannot do.

The only difference is warrior's SLIGHTLY lower hp, simply because of how defiance works, NOT because of how toggling is beneficial one way or the other. And to be clear WHY defiance is only 20% hps increase, it also has a 10% parry increase, which is roughly 2-3% mitigation, which brings the gap even closer.

We are not comparing holmgang to hg. We are not comparing the entirety of their kits together, because this togging thing literally only affects one thing, and that is a GCD missing (and minor resource loss on the part of pali, major resource loss for drk).

This has nothing to do with omg they are different classes and must be completely different, this will completely change the balance.

No this is just a QoL thing that is kinda annoying and has no good reason to be this way.

[Dererk]

Thing is stance changing is becoming more common now because now PLD has weapon skills that won't steal hate WAR has a DPS stance now DRK has darkside that can boost their dps in grit but can't use blood weapon in grit so if their ot they can only use siphon blade to get mp back.

And OT lose dps if they need to tank swap at some point or get an add so both PLD and DRK are at a disadvantage at this since they need to use a GCD to put tank stance on not to mention it costs mp and DRK tank stance takes a good chunk of it if they have Darkside up. So if people are complaining that they should turn the stance off in these situations most won't bother because they will have a gcd after outing them bk up.

So no this is not about mitigation its not about that WARs have to be healed after using theirs.

Its about being able to act faster in these situations also for fights like Biz ex stance swapping is important.

So all wars who are crying saying it's anything but this be quiet.

[Reynhart]

its not fair that shield oath/grit are on gcd because their effect is immediate but defiance is off gcd but requires the use of a resource or cool down to become effective?

Hello, I'm MP cost, apparently, you don't know me

Being off-GCD is its unique advantage, while the other two give instant mitigation and overall better healing.

Apart from allowing you to prepare a DPS burst or a mitigation skill by transfering 5 stacks of whatever you have.

Besides, why should Sword/Shield Oath/Grit interrupt combos ? Flash or Unleash don't.

[winsock]

Invalid argument. You can keep your stacks and use Inner beast to get the same effect as soon as the stance switch happen.

Innerbeast is on gcd..... If anything u are helping his argument

[Reynhart]

Innerbeast is on gcd..... If anything u are helping his argument

Yes, it's like PLD stance, on GCD, interrupt combos...oh, wait...

[winsock]

WARs are off gcd cause the action itself does nothing beneficial, the benefits are given on the actions to follow.

For example, say a WAR and a PLD are both in DPS stances, both have 10k HP, and both are about to take a hit worth 10k dmg.

For the PLD, the act of switching to shield stance will be enough to survive the hit.

For the WAR, switching to defiance is not enough to survive, the war will need to follow-up with a heal or innerbeast to be able to survive the same attack.

[Reynhart]

Xeno explained it on his stream this way: Warrior doesn't get their mitigation from defiance immediately.

Their healing boost is a big part of their mitigation. As long as you already lost those extra HP boost, it's the only thing that keep you from dying.

WARs are off gcd cause the action itself does nothing beneficial, the benefits are given on the actions to follow.

I'm pretty sure the healing bonus, i.e what makes you really sturdier, is effective immediatly.

I don't tell me that you NEED the extra HP to survive until the next GCD, because no hit is enough to kill you apart from a tankbuster...where you'll use a cooldown anyway.

[Dererk]

WARs are off gcd cause the action itself does nothing beneficial, the benefits are given on the actions to follow.

For example, say a WAR and a PLD are both in DPS stances, both have 10k HP, and both are about to take a hit worth 10k dmg.

For the PLD, the act of switching to shield stance will be enough to survive the hit.

For the WAR, switching to defiance is not enough to survive, the war will need to follow-up with a heal or innerbeast to be able to survive the same attack.

If the PLD is already MT then Shield should already be on.

I'm all for the stances breaking combos my main concern is its a friking pain in the a?? To have to wait till my GCD is bk up to switch stances for a tank swap mechanic or to grab adds when OT this is why when I played PLD I would never use sword oath and just kept shiled up the whole fight.

[winsock]

I'm pretty sure the healing bonus, i.e what makes you really sturdier, is effective immediatly.

Lol, so you have 10k HP, you're about to take 10k dmg. You hit defiance. You still have 10k HP, you get hit for 10k and are dead.... Yep, that's immediate effectiveness *sarcasm.