Bard - they broke my job

[Lunalo]

There's a funny thing about balancing utility with straight power: If you have both, you automatically become OP. Some players remember Ninjas before the nerfs? They had top-tier damage AND crazy utility in the form of Goad and Trick Attack. Why would you take other jobs when Ninjas had the best damage AND could stagger multiple Trick Attacks for everyone?

And this is why Bards are the way they are now, because if Bard mains have their cake and eat it too in terms of DPS output, they will be the only job in the game worth taking. I mean why would you bother with melees or even offensive casters if a ranged could bring literally all of the damage AND their utility songs?

[Lunalo]

If Bards and Machinists are getting kicked/denied spots from PUGs and statics simply for their choice of job, then generally speaking you don't want to associate with these people. Photos and videos of Alexander Savage world 1st progression groups clearly show at least 1 bard in their respective groups so obviously they cannot be bad. As far as meeting DPS checks are concerned, I had at least 1 Bard keep up with my i180 Ninja DPS in phase 3 of Bismarck EX which calls for LOTS of mobility with WM being notably off for most of it due to not wanting to die.

All that aside I still think the playstyle changes that happened to the bard really should've called for some kind of wider beta test at least to see how the community was gonna take it, and to iron out those early math kinks they screwed up.

[yamochan]

snip

ok then you as a ninja are the perfect example u are melee and i know thats harder to play but u also bringt a 10% dmg boost thats up 2/3 of the time and the tp buff for 1 person but you dont get any bad things from that...

now bard brings a 10% macig armor reduce (not flat dmg boost, 20% with cd) and a mana/tp song that will not be used by all players only the heals/mana OR melees/tp for that we get a 20% dmg debuff so it would be balanced thx to the debuff IF we had the same base dps output as a ninja wich we just cant do if u play ur class right.
so our dmg boosts are about even and the support is balanced as well only thing thats different is our class dmg and thats were you shine while we fade into nothingless (the best bards performance was a 900 dps ravana ex kill, the nin inthat fight had 1.1k if i read correctly)
with WM we should have the same dps as anyone else but thats just not the case

[Wavaryen]

A lot of my friends just quit the job. I am going to focus on crafting/gathering. Never was a fan of the combat, but bard made it pretty decent. Now I just don't like where the class is heading.

[Katchoo]

And this is why Bards are the way they are now, because if Bard mains have their cake and eat it too in terms of DPS output, they will be the only job in the game worth taking. I mean why would you bother with melees or even offensive casters if a ranged could bring literally all of the damage AND their utility songs?

This is very very true BUT Bards damage balance was always around it's mobility not it's songs.

Imagen if Ninja had originally had a 15% damage reduction for the duration that Goad was up, would that have been a fair balance? hmm not sure but you get the picture.

Songs have their own balance system that is independent for the most part from the rest of the job. The reason they effect our damage output in the big picture is because they take up the space of where other jobs would usually have DPS skills. Which brings me to my next point.

I'm not saying i totally disagree with you, i am happy not to be top DPS, i enjoy brining utility to the group and i think many people who play Bard would agree. The problem was that once you started to stack Bard it became detrimental to the group.

SE philosophy for this and to try and change Bard has always been "you should not need specific Jobs to play content" but it's complete bullshit. You always take at least one melee DPS, you always take a WAR and PLD combo and always take a WHM and SCH combo. It's more efficient that way, sure you can do it fine with other combinations but was not optimal.

Why did Bard have to be changed in such a way? Surly it could have had it's damage scaled along with all the other jobs quite easily? Had it's complexity enhanced in line with other jobs by, off the top off my head, being even more DoT focused in line with SMN rather than trying to be some kind of BLM.

[yamochan]

snip

im just adding to that. the BRD before 3.0 was a unique class like all the others now its just a weak BLM ripoff with a battery charger and no flow in his skills

[Lancerz]

I wish they would just go ahead and add ranger already...They are making brd/mch in ffxiv like drg was in FFXI, the lol job.

[Taban]

There's a funny thing about balancing utility with straight power: If you have both, you automatically become OP. Some players remember Ninjas before the nerfs? They had top-tier damage AND crazy utility in the form of Goad and Trick Attack. Why would you take other jobs when Ninjas had the best damage AND could stagger multiple Trick Attacks for everyone?

And this is why Bards are the way they are now, because if Bard mains have their cake and eat it too in terms of DPS output, they will be the only job in the game worth taking. I mean why would you bother with melees or even offensive casters if a ranged could bring literally all of the damage AND their utility songs?

Kind of like that crit buff that drg the top dps has? =p Every class brings utility

[Aiselia]

if a ranged could bring literally all of the damage AND their utility songs?

Because you wouldn't need more than one Ballad/Paeon and Bards can't buff each others' damage.

Bring a DRG and they're buffing the Bard's damage and their own while bringing their crit buff.

Bring a SMN and Bard buffs their damage as well as being the only DPS that can revive people.

Bring a NIN and they can buff tank damage and everyone's damage with TA.

I mean, I'd have thought that class synergy would be the obvious reason to not stack classes given equal damage output.

generally speaking you don't want to associate with these people.

I'm sure that's little comfort to the people who spend 20 minutes in duty finder queue just to get kicked and have to start all over again.

They might have literally wasted 20 minutes, but hey, at least they're not in a group with a bunch of jerks, amirite?

[Darian]

For me it feels like Bard is currently only wanted if your group feels like they can't manage their MP/TP. While I agree that foes is a ok song it has no effect on over half the jobs in the game. As others have said Bard does NOT DPS or support well in its current state. My wish is for SE to decide what they want Bard to be as it's currently the only job that having more then 1 can result in a instant boot. Not to mention they added MCH to the mix too.

Again, not looking for DRG numbers but Bard should be a legit DPS when not singing and in WM. Or it should have support that DRG,NIN,etc can't rival.