We should have a "Lance mage", "Ninja Sword mage", "Fist mage"

[Nestama]

The difference is that I'm looking at it reset and I can't do anything to use it immediately and potentially watch me get a double proc, wasting the first one.

Frequent occurrence for BLM's. We learned to deal with it (though Enochian pretty much fixes this "issue" thanks to Fire IV, while introducing new frustrations that we have to get used to).

[dielray]

Frequent occurrence for BLM's. We learned to deal with it (though Enochian pretty much fixes this "issue" thanks to Fire IV, while introducing new frustrations that we have to get used to).

It's a lot more fun to have the option to respond to a proc quickly, I promise. Never having had it I don't expect you to understand what was lost, but it was the key "fun" element to an otherwise simple GCD.

[RiceisNice]

Frequent occurrence for BLM's. We learned to deal with it (though Enochian pretty much fixes this "issue" thanks to Fire IV, while introducing new frustrations that we have to get used to).

Having to use straight shot more than needed is both a dps loss due to lower potency than heavy shot, and resource loss since it costs more TP than heavy shot on a class that has finite resources. It all screams bad design to me and makes the class that much less enjoyable.

On your end, its just silly/terrible design to have to ignore thundercloud procs because its a dps loss during enochian, and even then they'd mention they would look into during liveletter.

[AiiroOkami]

And he lies

Of course you didn't say anything about the job except from that, lying is wrong you know ?
RiceisNice for example, always said it was the only issue about it, I personally don't have it, but it can due to lags, BUT he never said something else about the Bard, while you were complaining about everything, quit lying, will you ?

I didn't even read your thing about winning, I don't read kids stories, sorry.

What is exciting ? I know the Bard was a no-brain class in ARR rotation-wise, but know you have some other skills to care about without talking about mechanics and dodging AOE while trying to not lose DPS. While you are not even close to a real difficult class like the Summoner or the Monk (Well all DPS class except the MCH to be honest), at least you have to be a little smarter than before to output good DPS.
But well, let SE fix that for you, you can DPS without using your brain after that, happy ?

[AiiroOkami]

Snip.

Like I said in my previous post, you can still not waste the proc, but I agree that the timing is tight and lag is also a big factor.
But I would be a little bit irritated if they did something about it. The BLM had this problem with "Firestarter" since day 1 and you really COULDN'T do anything about it if you didn't want to lose DPS.
Even if apparently, Enochian did solve the problem a bit (only from what main BLM told me, I don't have my 60 BLM), it is still really unfair to change this, while the BLM had to deal with it for almost 2 years.

[Ryaz]

snip

You've got about 20 posts on the forums and in every one you've been harassing people and insulting their intelligence. Not cool, dude.

I also have to disagree with your comment about MCH being s less difficult class to play. It's generally accepted that MCH is a higher skill level class because you have to manage your procs, you OGCD abilities, your buffs and especially your Wildfire all while keeping an eye on your turret just to keep up decent dps. You make one mistake on a buff phase and you'll see your numbers drop like a rock.

[AiiroOkami]

Snip

I'm not insulting them, if I say something that is totally valid in the debate and a person replies with no valid points, what do you want me to say ? I love unicors and teddy bears ? Of course not, I am just salty against people who can't keep up a debate properly, but for example you got a valid point and I will answer you normally and politely.

First of, maybe I didn't make myself clear, I didn't say BRD and MCH are easy, I said they are the easiest jobs atm, I apologize for that misunderstanding.
Let me explain why I think this way.

You are totally correct on what you said, I totally agree on that, but when you see what the other DPS classes have to do to keep up an exceptional DPS, you have more things to care about.
I'll take the Summoner and the Dragoon as examples since they are my 2 level 60 jobs.

Summoner : I main it since the beginning of the game and I had a lot of trouble to play it at his best on ARR, but let's talk about HW. The class is almost the same, keep up 4 DOTs constantly, manage your Pet (Buff, make it use skills etc), Ruin all the time, Fester when we can and now we have DT that make the job really interesting and you have to be perfect since the beginning of the fight to output good numbers. We don't have Procs or that oGCD skills but just refresh all the DOTs is already something difficult, and make the best of it is even worse.

Dragoon : While I think that the dragoon was quite easy in ARR, it is way more complicated in HW. First the dragoon has a lot of oGCD skills, due to his jumps. Now we have Blood of the dragon that include some kind of Procs, postionals and timing. All that make the dragoon difficult and you have to be focused on his rotation and on the mechanics.

While you have things to take care of as BRD/MCH this is not as punishing as the other classes, that's all.

[Nestama]

On your end, its just silly/terrible design to have to ignore thundercloud procs because its a dps loss during enochian, and even then they'd mention they would look into during liveletter.

And now ignoring Thundercloud during Enochian would be considered a DPS loss now that Thundercloud III has a potency of 390 (a little higher than Fire IV's 30% Astral buff). So now us BLM's have to include Thunder into our rotation again... wee.

[dielray]

snip

Yes, bard has always been a forgiving class and continues to be. WM does raise the skill floor a decent amount, but also lowers the skill ceiling.

It is interesting to see the things you point out for SMN and DRG. It seems you are pointing out the need to focus on a number of things as difficult for summoner and the need to respond quickly to a proc(that you know is coming) as difficult for DRG. In 2.0 a bard was focused on his auto-attack timing, his straight shot buff timer(which due to being proc based refresh didn't always line up like heavy thrust), his dot timers, the dot damage timing, his TP, party members MP, skills used by other party members(shroud, goad, invigorate, BLM's raging strikes, etc) and how long they're left on CD, his oGCD CDs(of which there are plenty), and where he is in the GCD. Except for 2 GCDs every 18 secs, bard was making a split-second decision on which GCD ability to use every GCD.

In 3.0, barrage was modified. 3.0 changed the hardest DPS skill to consistently use to its fullest to a simple 1-2 combo. We no longer care about our auto-attacks or their timing(nor do we have them most of the time), which was one of the biggest focus points when barrage was coming up. WM makes it so you always know what your next GCD is going to be a fair amount of time ahead. WM emphasizes the simplest part of our tool kit, essentially giving more time to focus on everything else. In ARR, I typically spent 1/3rd of the GCD deciding on which GCD skill to use, 1/3 deciding the oGCD to use, and then the last third spamming bloodletter while focusing on every little thing we have to watch out for. With WM, 2/3 of the GCD is casting. With the GCD so simple now without a proc to respond to quickly or really focus on, we just have so much time to focus on everything that needs focusing. The class just plays and feels a lot simpler and slower.

Tl;dr: the things you point out for SMN and DRG are basically things BRD lost with 3.0.

[RiceisNice]

...

It's just as unfair to change how BRD worked for the past 2 years as much as it did to BLM. Both are detrimental to overall damage and how the class plays because really, it shouldn't be designed in a way that it disregards the previous tookits introduced in 2.0.

The timer's even tighter than firestarter; While you can wait off a split second off the cast or use an oGCD to immediately finish a firecast, I can'd do that with straighter shot procs, oGCD or not. And straighter shot is part of our normal rotation to refresh the buff, it already comes at both a potency loss compared to our filler skill and higher tp skill. If it wasn't acceptable for BLM, it's certainly as hell not acceptable for BRD, even if it's "fixed" for blm's case.

And now ignoring Thundercloud during Enochian would be considered a DPS loss now that Thundercloud III has a potency of 390 (a little higher than Fire IV's 30% Astral buff). So now us BLM's have to include Thunder into our rotation again... wee.

I'd rather the class play coherently and have their new skills add onto what they already do to accommodate their gameplay, rather than go against their previous toolkit and change it completely =/. That's why something like WM's interaciton with 2.0 bard and thundercloud during enochian bugs me so much.