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  1. #1
    Player
    Ultimatecalibur's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Posts
    2,737
    Character
    Kakita Ucalibur
    World
    Siren
    Main Class
    Paladin Lv 86
    Quote Originally Posted by Reynhart View Post
    Our enmity is directly tied to the damage we do.

    A RoH combo with Shield Oath gives us an average enmity multiplier of 6. No DPS is doing 6 times the damage we do.
    A RoH combo generates 2050 (Fast blade 150 + Savage Blade 600 + Rage of Halone 1300) potency worth of enmity total over 3 gcds for ~683 enmity per gcd. Shield oath decreases potency by 20% before doubling enmity generated for an enmity multiplier of 1.6 for 1093 total enmity per gcd. The 1093 enmity per gcd generated by the combo has not changed since level 40 when we got Shield Oath.

    Every DpS on the other hand has received various abilities that have increased their average potency per gcd. The amount of enmity they are generating has increased compared to a Paladin spamming RoH. This is not even factoring in the fact that the Royal Authority and Goring Blade combos generate less enmity than the RoH combo while increasing damage.
    (1)

  2. #2
    Player
    Reynhart's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Ul'Dah
    Posts
    4,605
    Character
    Reynhart Kristensen
    World
    Ragnarok
    Main Class
    Dark Knight Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by Ultimatecalibur View Post
    The 1093 enmity per gcd generated by the combo has not changed since level 40 when we got Shield Oath.
    Try to calculate the enmity generated by any DPS, and you'll see they're still far behind us.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ultimatecalibur View Post
    Every DpS on the other hand has received various abilities that have increased their average potency per gcd
    In fact, they haven't received that much more, potency wise. Full Thrust is still the highest potency for DRG, and Battle Litany don't give a constant boost.

    If you see really big numbers nowadays, it's because the attack power is higher, so for the same potency, you do much more damage. Which is also true for PLD since they receive the exact same attack boost.
    (0)
    Last edited by Reynhart; 07-20-2015 at 07:07 PM.

  3. #3
    Player
    Ultimatecalibur's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Posts
    2,737
    Character
    Kakita Ucalibur
    World
    Siren
    Main Class
    Paladin Lv 86
    Quote Originally Posted by Reynhart View Post
    Try to calculate the enmity generated by any DPS, and you'll see they're still far behind us.

    In fact, they haven't received that much more, potency wise. Full Thrust is still the highest potency for DRG, and Battle Litany don't give a constant boost.
    That is not what I mean. An increase in average potency per gcd (even slight) for DpS is an increase in average enmity per gcd at the same time. This means it takes fewer gcds for a DpS hitting a target that you are not focusing on with RoH to catch up or exceed the enmity you generated with your 3 or 4 flashes.

    If you see really big numbers nowadays, it's because the attack power is higher, so for the same potency, you do much more damage. Which is also true for PLD since they receive the exact same attack boost.
    False. Unless the tank is in Str accessories, tank enmity generation is not growing at the same rate as that of true DpSs. At 54, a full geared i133 a tank wearing Vit accessories has 120 less strength from gear than a Dragoon or Monk. That is a significant amount that combined with increased average potencies can lead to tanks that have yet to change from their level 50 rotations to have enmity trouble. The Enmity leads tanks can generate are still very large, but it now takes more actions to build up enough enmity to prevent peeling for the same length of time.
    (1)
    Last edited by Ultimatecalibur; 07-20-2015 at 08:32 PM.

  4. #4
    Player
    Reynhart's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Ul'Dah
    Posts
    4,605
    Character
    Reynhart Kristensen
    World
    Ragnarok
    Main Class
    Dark Knight Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by Ultimatecalibur View Post
    That is not what I mean. An increase in average potency per gcd (even slight) for DpS is an increase in average enmity per gcd at the same time. This means it takes fewer gcds for a DpS hitting a target that you are not focusing on with RoH to catch up or exceed the enmity you generated with your 3 or 4 flashes.
    The problem here is your "focus". Why should a DPS go medieval on a target you're not focused on ?
    If you pulled an entire group, then DPS will use their AoE, resulting in far lower potency. Thus you can keep aggro with CoS and Flash spamming.
    If not, then your DPS should focus on the same target as you.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ultimatecalibur View Post
    False. Unless the tank is in Str accessories, tank enmity generation is not growing at the same rate as that of true DpSs.
    With a full set 130, a tank had 269 STR bonus while a DPS had 385. It means that a DPS gained 43% more STR from gear alone.
    At lvl 60 with a full 190 set (Which is technically impossible for DPS now because of the two rings), a tank will have 385 STR bonus while a DPS whill have 663...thus 43% more STR.
    So the ratio between the two is still the same.
    (0)
    Last edited by Reynhart; 07-20-2015 at 09:10 PM.

  5. #5
    Player
    Yorumi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    390
    Character
    Yorumi Eienyuki
    World
    Ultros
    Main Class
    Red Mage Lv 77
    I think the problem might be that you're using flash too much. While watchign the hate meters I notice flash doesn't do a whole lot. RoH is our real threat move, even savage blade doesn't do that much.

    What I do, is Shield lob while running, circle, flash, then go into tab targeting RoH combos, using circle on cooldown. If dps has 30% or more of their hate bar empty I'll start working in goring blade combos.
    (1)

  6. #6
    Player
    PWilson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Posts
    78
    Character
    Paul Wilson
    World
    Leviathan
    Main Class
    Paladin Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by Yorumi View Post
    I think the problem might be that you're using flash too much. While watchign the hate meters I notice flash doesn't do a whole lot. RoH is our real threat move, even savage blade doesn't do that much.

    What I do, is Shield lob while running, circle, flash, then go into tab targeting RoH combos, using circle on cooldown. If dps has 30% or more of their hate bar empty I'll start working in goring blade combos.
    I've gotta second this. For getting enmity, flash is mediocre. The advantage is that it gets enmity on everyone.
    I've not levelled my main class to 60 yet. I'm enjoying the story and RL and stuff. But I've never had a problem retaining aggro with my PLD. When you find yourself with PLENTY of aggro on the second/third/fourth mobs of a trash pull and fighting valiantly for the attentions of the first mob, you've used too much flash.
    (0)
    My goal is to better than yesterday.

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