I am a bad tank coz i use vit(tank) gear!

[Kotemon]

Ok. +Str debate on tanks, take .. something, I lost count long ago. Other than the increase to physical combat damage. +Str used to increase the amount of damage blocked and parried as well and +Dex would influence the parry and block rate (lesser effect). Before the block strength (sometimes parry), added more to +Str tanks over going all +Vit due to +damage mitigation. Now according to the current text, Dex and Str only influence their respective physical range and melee damage formulas. With that said the overall need for either stat is removed for +Dex and situational for +Str. The situation is based on the mobs, dps make up of your party/group, and how defined your abs are while wearing your armor.

Between Warrior and Paladin, there are abilities that get more out of +str or +vit respectively. It's also play style and whether or not you will allow your healer to nuke with the two black mages. The end issue is that neither all +Str or +Vit will help people tank better if they are not good at holding hate or knowing when to move out of the glowing spots on the floor. Spamming flash and overpower wont make up for the DPS pulling hate off or those who don't know how to read the enmity bar either. Its a learning curve to hold one target, then two , then three, etc. Know skill limits and develop a play style (+str or +vit). Most folks on DF will always have an issue with anyone that don't fit their play style or are still on a learning curve. I'd rather a tank that can hold hate, and mitigate incoming damage. Than the tank who runs in and pulls hate across the zone to the boss, and chews everyone out for not doing their job because they (tank) died or pulled hate off them (tank).

On a side note all the +Str will not increase enmity from Flash or enmity combos. Only the damage delt, and that is more or less a minor increase to normal melee damage enmity that's being added on a stack. The overall amount as I under stood it was to slow down enmity gain generated from faster and stronger dps and cures. Tanks generating more enmity than everyone else is good. That's what they do. Generating and maintaining enmity on multiple targets is better. Tanks are not #1 in DPS. Otherwise by concept it would be impossible for Tanks currently to hold enmity off DPS if not for their Enmity generation abilities. Dps needs to dps, Tank dps only slows down DPS and cure enmity generation while stacking up on enmity combos. The only thing that will make it easier to hold hate off everyone else is making sure your main weapon is on par or better than everyone else's.

Aside from the +Str vs +Vit tanks. Has anyone found out how skill speed affects dot from Maim, CoS, and Goring blade? Would any tank Dot contribute to keeping hate, or slowing hate generation form others on mobs aside from the Dps aspect from skill speed?

[Aeyis]

This, however, is presuming the entire raid has a 30% increase in DPS. 1/8th of a raid that has a 30% increase wouldn't translate into those numbers, and ultimately, that's what people want to know.

Just how much shorter would the entire raid take if the tank uses full STR ? That is the question.

Your calculation also doesn't take into account damage taken, people falling/being resurrected, and such.

You know what tanking is like for WARs. They ARE the entire raid. The other 7 are there to Esuna/heal them. And goad.


Naturally since this means they are 100% of the dps, if their dps goes up by 30% the raid dps goes up by that much.

[Daralii]

You know what tanking is like for WARs. They ARE the entire raid. The other 7 are there to Esuna/heal them. And goad.


Naturally since this means they are 100% of the dps, if their dps goes up by 30% the raid dps goes up by that much.

Implying they need goad. I've at least heard of tests where warriors could comfortably sustain their TP for 15+ minutes.

[Aeyis]

Implying they need goad. I've at least heard of tests where warriors could comfortably sustain their TP for 15+ minutes.

Goad is much like str accessories and bonus points. While you dont need either at all, they do increase your dps.

MOAR DPS

[amihavingfunyet]

Using Fell Cleave and Equilibrium a WAR shouldn't ever need Goad.

[Xensai]

STR Tanking requires thought and communication with healers it also requires you to have a brain.
It DOES not make you a bad tank using all VIT it just means youre less optimized but at the end of the day if youre clearing content who gives a stuff what people say

[Waliel]

Has anyone found out how skill speed affects dot from Maim, CoS, and Goring blade? Would any tank Dot contribute to keeping hate, or slowing hate generation form others on mobs aside from the Dps aspect from skill speed?

I believe DoT damage increase from Spell/Skill Speed is close to, if not the same, as the increase from DET. There was data somewhere in the DPS forums.

[l---------------l]

I don't know what's all this about STR tanks in forum from all sudden, but... My DRK.... is already 60 and... Well, I USE IT WITH STR ACCESORIES and 30 STR... Because? Because I can, and because I do more DEEPS than mot of the DEEPS I find in duty finder, and healer can withstand it perfectly. And how do I know healer can withstand it perfectly?

Because I'm also a 60 WHM and in roulette expert I'm so bored that I can heal while DPS... If the healer of my party is just going to heal and not help dpsing, then it's my duty to plug in the STR gear and DPS myself... If the healer wants to DEEPs, well, okay then, I don't mind going tank gear and slack a bit....

In hard content? Well, I just did Alexander with my raids and.....I know it's not savage, but, when I'm as healer I have to heal the tanks with their DPS stances, and STR gear, I have to heal them WHILE DPSING.. come guys, it's not that hard, really. Perhaps in Alexander Savage tanks will need that 2k extra vit, and we healers just to heal, but, not at the moment.

(The nice feeling of doing Alexander Floor 3 and don't even let the living liquid to transform into a hand a second time... It's just like, it transforms to hand, then to whirlpool, then humanoid, then we push it and cascade stage starts... DPS are around 1000, tanks are around 700-850, healers around 400-500.... Damn beasts! )


PS: The 'casual content' and with that I mean, everything but savages, is made for tanks and healers so we just need to maintain the minimum for survive and the rest make our BEST DPS for making it faster and help party. A healer doesn't need to spam cure all time like a headless chicken, a tank doesn't need to have 2k more HP but rather 100-150+ DPS
PS2: As a DRK with STR spec, you RARELY need to use aggro combo, you can maintain aggro just using your MP combos, and, even, if DPS sucks, using your MP combo without grit. I can't remember last time I needed to use aggro combo aside of the starter when going MT.... The more STR, the more self-heals, the more aggro, the more aggro the more MP you can get, the more damage the more MP bloodblade gives you...

[Evaddaragon]

How many times have you been in a raid that failed at 2-3%, How many times has an enrage just been missed. This is where it comes into play. Its not game breaking, but it does make a difference. I'm not the type who cares too much if I get a Vit or Str tank, as long as they hold hate. But denying that an optimized tank makes a difference is just foolishness.

Ironically, I think I've seen 1% more often than 2 and 3 % combined. LOL

I've always been of the opinion that if we miss an enrage, it was mainly the DPS' fault, because one or many of them spent a little too much time lying on the floor.

I'm not denying it helps, but it's when I hear people saying "tanks are bad if they don't use STR" and then see the numbers I'm being provided, I'm like, "well, that's a bit exagerated".

[Cyrus-Wallace]

That was done on a training dummy outside my FC house. I attempted to keep the times similar so as to give an accurate comparison. The other thing to keep in mind as well is that STR influences your self heals (Equilibrium and Second Wind for WAR and Clemency for PLD).

Our posts got deleted.