Strength Tanks and You.

[Tatsuya227]

Please Kirana.....if you are a main tank and you see my toon in the next DF...please remind me of this post of yours so I can just abandon and take the penalty so I dont have to keep dying from your bad tanking!!! Seriously.....please do that for me!!!

Maybe, just maybe, you don't know how to heal good/are a lazy healer? Or perhaps you've just had bad tanks w/ STR gear who don't know how to use CDs right. I'm going to say you had bad tanks..... unless you are a tank and just don't know how to use CDs right or when to use your CDs in the fights? Um its one of those lol

[Gyson]

I main WHM. Sorry. I'll continue to enjoy my fast clears with players who know what they are doing.

Just how bad are you and your damage dealers at, well, dealing damage that a tank with STR accessories is turning your run from a "not fast" clear to a "fast" clear? Just curious.

[Madruck]

I main WHM. Sorry. I'll continue to enjoy my fast clears with players who know what they are doing.

Fast clears...everytime I do a Dungeon with my 183 Dark or Pally we clear on the average in 15 minutes even with me being in full Vitality gear and speced full Vitality.....what in the heck are you talking about faster? 1 min....2 min....I mean seriously......how much time do you think your going to save doing Alex savage coming on Tuesday with a tank that has Str gear on? Can you say contant wipes since they dont have enough HP to stay alive.....so goofy!!!!

[Tatsuya227]

Fast clears...everytime I do a Dungeon with my 183 Dark or Pally we clear on the average in 15 minutes even with me being in full Vitality gear and speced full Vitality.....what in the heck are you talking about faster? 1 min....2 min....I mean seriously......how much time do you think your going to save doing Alex savage coming on Tuesday with a tank that has Str gear on? Can you say contant wipes since they dont have enough HP to stay alive.....so goofy!!!!

15 mins in every dungeon? Wow... and dude, DnT, CL, MOD, and EM all have tanks wearing STR gear. If the tank knows how to use CDs its okay, same goes if the healer knows how to heal right. Every raid team I can think of had SCH DPS all the time unless needed.

[Kirana]

Just how bad are you and your damage dealers at, well, dealing damage that a tank with STR accessories is turning your run from a "not fast" clear to a "fast" clear? Just curious.

Not? More DPS is faster...honestly how hard is that to understand? There is no set in stone amount of time that is "fast". Everyone in our group is expected to push out as much DPS as possible. We could clear every fight just fine with the tanks in vit gear and tank stance. That would be inefficient, slower, and boring though.

[Kirana]

Fast clears...everytime I do a Dungeon with my 183 Dark or Pally we clear on the average in 15 minutes even with me being in full Vitality gear and speced full Vitality.....what in the heck are you talking about faster? 1 min....2 min....I mean seriously......how much time do you think your going to save doing Alex savage coming on Tuesday with a tank that has Str gear on? Can you say contant wipes since they dont have enough HP to stay alive.....so goofy!!!!

1-2 minutes faster is still faster...So are you agreeing with me?

Why are you talking about alex savage now? This is a strawman. We have no idea what the vit requirements will be for it yet. Our tanks will put on whatever vit is needed for it.

[KoutaAtaire]

K so after leveling all three healers to 60 here's my thing:

Come to a dungeon in whatever accessories and stats you want. You like PIE or DEX? Go with that.

If you pull trash and never pop CDs, you better hope Eos/Selene or my regens keep you alive because I'll be DPSing just as much as I do with a VIT tank. If you die and complain, I'll gladly remind you of which CDs you didn't pop and, if you continue to not pop CDs, will be eating a lot of dirt while the DPS and I tank everything. And I'll be doing more DPS than you guaranteed on any of the healers on trash pulls. The more mobs you pull, the more DPS I do. In fact, on dungeons at 60, my SCH and WHM can and will out DPS even main DPS jobs on packs of 6 or more mobs. Bane is broken (but nice) and WHM AoE has never been stronger with assize and aero III coupled with holy spam and stuns.

On bosses that hit hard or do a lot of AoE damage, I'll give you more attention because it's your turn to shine. My single target DPS is about as strong as yours but I have to manage more people than you and often have to do AoE healing so I'll lower my priority to healing and allow you to do more DPS.

Let's be honest: it's really easy for a tank to get away with popping a CD late or not at all because, most of the time, the only one paying attention to the tank's CD usage is the healer. If the tank dies, usually the assumption is the healer sucked. Even if a tank pops a CD, the CD can be late and not mitigate the attack it was meant to mitigate. So it looks like a tank popped a CD but it was popped late further leading the DPS to believe it's the healer's fault. Both are incorrect assumptions. The only way to really prove this is to go through the ACT log and examine when the tank used the CD and when the damage registered. This takes a lot of time.

Just remember two things:

1) In 4 man content, healer DPS and tank DPS is equivalent to a 3rd DPS. In some case, it's greater than either of the other two DPS combined. If, for any reason, you cause me to focus solely on healing (resulting in zero DPS) because you can't manage cooldowns or you thought pulling 3 packs in STR gear while fully specced into STR was a good idea, then we have a problem. It goes two ways: neither of us has the title of DPS but we both want to be a DPS just the same.

2) If your healer is not DPSing, then please convert their mana into damage by using full STR accessories and STR stats. No 4 man content requires a healer to ever be healing 100% of the time unless stupid occurs in any one of the four party members.


Honestly, at this point, I'd rather the party composition be 3 DPS and a healer because that would at least be challenging while speeding up runs much faster than a tank + healer's DPS contribution.

whit 17k of vit you can take the balls fast and 0 issues in A4, i get 5/6 balls very fast thnaks to shadowskin/wall the i have a good dps whit grit around 400-500 so the adds in quarentine fall fast, so is not useless too.

No mitigation will work on orbs in A4. They are considered 'darkness' damage and cannot be mitigated by normal means like manaward and tank CDs. Thrill of battle is very useful, though.

I stopped trying to argue with people who can't face the truth even with math thrown at their face, let them believe in their almighty full VIT Paladin and believe that if they wipe in expert dungeons it's because that WAR is full STR instead of the fact that this WAR may be just bad at tanking and would be the same pain on full VIT.

We, good STR tanks, have statics and have no problem with progression raiding. We know our business, we play our job in the most efficient way, let us be. If you see a bad tank who makes you wipe and he's STR specced, it's just another guy who wants to be like us but miserably fails. It's not because he's STR specced, he's just bad and wannabe-cool. Just accept this fact and leave us alone. Complain about bad tanks who don't use their defensive abilities, that's the real problem, and it has NOTHING to do with STR or VIT.

But the thing is: you really don't know anything since you only see the story from one side. A majority of career tanks do not play healers and have never healed savage content in i110 gear or T13 with a DRG and no MNK pre-DRG defensive buffs in i110 gear. You will never understand these intricacies and that there is a time and place for everything.

The most intelligent responses in this thread are those who advocate for having two sets of gear. The extreme ends of both sides are equally asinine.

[Akuryu]

Honestly, at this point, I'd rather the party composition be 3 DPS and a healer because that would at least be challenging while speeding up runs much faster than a tank + healer's DPS contribution.

As far as I know, you can grab 3 DPS friends and queue for any dungeon in the game.

[AckersFury]

Most STR tanks think there amazing because they usually have a really good healer backing them up,which they tend to forget about, that little lala whm whos rocking back and fourth in the corner shitting himself before the next big pull...while the warriors spinning around SHOUTING unless your over gearing content or running with a static...you shouldn't be in full STR, can you get away with it? probably ..but it's nice to have a little safety net, rather get through something a little slower, than wiping constantly and it taking forever...there's no right and wrong answer, hence why were on page 31 and no one is still none the wiser, just play the game guys and enjoy it

[Aeyis]

I main WHM. Sorry. I'll continue to enjoy my fast clears with players who know what they are doing.

I believe they call that being carried.