Strength Tanks and You.

[MisterLucie]

Or his group realizes that there's no point in a tank sitting there doing nothing but eating hits to the face or a healer standing around twiddling their thumbs if there's no healing to be done or doing nothing but spamming heals. Why do you see it as such a horrible thing to optimize how you play your class? Why is it a horrible thing that a tank wants to put out as much DPS as they can while still performing their role of effectively mitigating damage and holding aggro?

Exactly this. Which of these sounds more valuable to you? A tank that survives and holds aggro and does 400 dps, or a tank that survives and holds aggro and does 800 dps?

I feel like the answer is pretty obvious.

[odie]

If you want to take hits to the face and nothing else then do that. If you want to maximize your dps then do that. But you two going on about who is better for what need to realize that unless you're in the same group it doesn't matter how you play it. As a healer I prefer that if you go str I also expect you to manage cooldowns. If you can't manage cooldowns you either go vit or leave my group.

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

Exactly this. Which of these sounds more valuable to you? A tank that survives and holds aggro and does 400 dps, or a tank that survives and holds aggro and does 800 dps?

I feel like the answer is pretty obvious.

What if it strains your healers more, they run out of mp, bad things happen. I do what my healers tell me to, if they can deal with me in str accessories, thats fine, but if they want me in full vit, i go that way.

A clear is a clear, no matter how its reached. I can guarantee we wouldnt have gotten our first t9 win if i was in str gear, same with a lot of other turns.

[MisterLucie]

What if it strains your healers more, they run out of mp, bad things happen. I do what my healers tell me to, if they can deal with me in str accessories, thats fine, but if they want me in full vit, i go that way.

A clear is a clear, no matter how its reached. I can guarantee we wouldnt have gotten our first t9 win if i was in str gear, same with a lot of other turns.

Then your healers are bad or you're doing mechanics improperly. Nothing in HW right now is difficult to heal in the slightest.

[Eye_Gore]

Exactly this. Which of these sounds more valuable to you? A tank that survives and holds aggro and does 400 dps, or a tank that survives and holds aggro and does 800 dps?

Or, Did we win because the tank put out an extra 400 dps, or was it that the tank had that extra 2k HP for that oh S%$t moment when the healer got tripped up for a second and couldn't get a heal off? Its a merry go round.

[IceWing]

There are no bosses aside from A4 (currently) that you cannot survive without proper cooldowns in STR gear, which is assuming people use cooldowns at proper times. Just because you get bad players doesn't make the gear set bad, it actually makes things much easier when done correctly on both ends.

Course people get the bads then come complaining without the research, which isn't surprising.

Even in A4 you can have both tanks go full str accessories, my group/fc does it all the time. Our tanks never put vit accessories on unless they are forced to, we rarely even go into tank stances.

[myahele]

Only problem with STR tanking is that new tanks hear that STR > VIT and these new tanks simply don't know how to manage their defensive cool downs. Combined with the mentality that they must pull most of the rooms mob = sad healers. Or a wipe.

[Tyrial]

If I wanted to do bare minimum I would stay in ilvl60 gear. Not many people want to do bare minimum. The thing is the argument is really a moot point. The are ups and downs to both sides. There really is no right or wrong answer. Though I have to wonder has anyone ever blamed a loss on a tank because they didn't have enough DPS?

Every boss encounter in a raid has had set HP percentages to trigger phase changes. The longer you're in a particular phase the more of that phases' mechanics you need to deal with, resulting in more time for mistakes to be made, more raid healing to be done by the healers, more chances for a tank to die, etc. The faster you push phases the faster you're done with the fight. While it's true that some encounters favor a faster push than others, it's a solid practice to put in place for every boss encounter unless there's a reason to specifically throttle back and avoid pushing too quickly (Turn 7 and Titan EX come to mind back when they were actually hard content).

Turn 9 and 13 are also good examples of where pushing phases faster is a far better scenario than having a tank sit there poking the boss with a toothpick. T9 the longer transition takes the more meteors you see, the more Ravensbeaks the tanks eat and the more Lunar Dynamos the Raid has to deal with. After Heavensfall, not pushing the boss fast enough results in more dragon spawns, which means more Heavensfalls and more garotte debuffs that need to be removed, more chances to die, etc.

Starting to get the picture yet?

[Deedsie]

Regarding those complaining about tanks going full strength while levelling up and dying all the time, I see a potential mix of factors on that one, biggest could be they're overpulling when they shouldn't be since they can't overgear that like they could in places like regular Wanderer's Palace or Amdapor Keep while attempting to speed run. I have seen a few examples of this happening.

That said, my initial runs in the two 60 dungeons were such that I HAD to keep on vit rings just to survive regular pulls and the bosses until I started getting better armor before going back to my preferred strength rings. Really comes down to understanding your limits.

I recently had a roulette in The Fractal Continuum where I had a pair of Bards with each having the i145 bow. Strength was a necessity there for the bosses since their output was very low and taking too long to kill will get you killed.

[Khemorex]

Or his group realizes that there's no point in a tank sitting there doing nothing but eating hits to the face or a healer standing around twiddling their thumbs if there's no healing to be done or doing nothing but spamming heals. Why do you see it as such a horrible thing to optimize how you play your class? Why is it a horrible thing that a tank wants to put out as much DPS as they can while still performing their role of effectively mitigating damage and holding aggro?

so doing my combos as it supposed to be is not enough? :P