Alexander Savage: The raid that killed the ability to help your friends clear

[Yukiko]

To all those who defend that system: Where were the so called "helpers" back in FCoB ?
Be realistic: no one helped and if, then in a very very closed friend grouping, even in most FCs you have a hard time to search for "helpers".
Try to shout for it, you may be surprised how many content sellers will answer...

Edit: In most FCs they did a rotation in their weekly static by learning someone new including to get the 2 chests because its not fair for the "new" one to not get any loot.

[Greven]

I feel it's quite the opposite. The old system was worse, this is a really nice upgrade both the on the helping side and the loot!

[Ashkendor]

To all those who defend that system: Where were the so called "helpers" back in FCoB ?

They were all over if you cared to look for them. Members of my static got help with everything from T9 forward from several people that already knew the content. We paid that help forward by running learning parties of our own later on, mostly in the weeks leading up to Heavensward. I've actually been PM'ed by random people from linkshells or even just from standing around town asking for help with content, and if I'm not busy typically I'll throw some time at it. Most of the members of my static have joined existing learning parties to help out as well.

Be realistic: no one helped and if, then in a very very closed friend grouping, even in most FCs you have a hard time to search for "helpers".
Try to shout for it, you may be surprised how many content sellers will answer...

All I can say is that you have to work for it like everyone else. Take the effort to put up a learning party in PF. Join a raid linkshell. Hell, join a social linkshell and ask if there's other people that want to learn or people that can help you learn. If you don't bother to look for help, then you can't really expect to get any. As far as mercs go, it is what it is. Some people want to just pay to get the clear and I see nothing wrong with providing that service. Others want to learn, and that's awesome. It's always great to see someone that actually wants to do it themselves.

[Windklinge]

sure the old system was worse 100% because rng loot 100'% sucks. but this new system is not that great either. its to harsh i say. you lose already a coffer with ONE helper? a single player does not have that much impact most the time i would actually say if 3 or more people cleared already THEN you should lose 1 coffer but not with 1 or 2 helpers. the restriction for the second coffer at 5 players+ is fair tough. nothing wrong with that otherwise sellers would become to big of an issue and this would in turn FEED gil sellers which is never a good thing to do.

sometimes someone got rl issues and cannot play for some reason and you have to replace them. its not really fair to be punished with a coffer loss for such cases i say for example. but aslong as there is only 1 or 2 helpers dont touch the loot i say. sure keep the restriction so they cannot roll. thats fine imo.

some people will agree on this and some wont. but getting the same 8 players to constantly play together seems much more stressful and hard than actually learing and beating a turn it seems as far as my experience goes :/ since everyone has different rl and sometimes you get in trouble with this. think most static players know what i talk about.

this new system with the token still beeing granted is atleast better tough. still not ideal i say. but step in right direction.

[Ashkendor]

you lose already a coffer with ONE helper? a single player does not have that much impact most the time i would actually say if 3 or more people cleared already THEN you should lose 1 coffer but not with 1 or 2 helpers.

A single person with in-depth knowledge of the mechanics can make all the difference in the world.

I think it's fair as it is.

[Sunako]

If 1 helper would not sacrifice loot then you would share 2 loot with 7 players and that would be unfair for players that need share 2 loot with 8 players. If there is 4 helpers loot ratio is exactly the same if 4 players need share 1 loot than 8 players need share 2 loot. In theory you should get 1 loot and 3/4 of second loot with one helper but you can not get half piece of the loot so whole coffer is removed.

[CGMidlander]

To all those who defend that system: Where were the so called "helpers" back in FCoB ?
Be realistic: no one helped and if, then in a very very closed friend grouping, even in most FCs you have a hard time to search for "helpers".
Try to shout for it, you may be surprised how many content sellers will answer...

Edit: In most FCs they did a rotation in their weekly static by learning someone new including to get the 2 chests because its not fair for the "new" one to not get any loot.

*Raises hand*
I was one; one out of a few dozen in a linkshell I'm a part of.

sure the old system was worse 100% because rng loot 100'% sucks. but this new system is not that great either. its to harsh i say. you lose already a coffer with ONE helper? a single player does not have that much impact most the time i would actually say if 3 or more people cleared already THEN you should lose 1 coffer but not with 1 or 2 helpers. the restriction for the second coffer at 5 players+ is fair tough. nothing wrong with that otherwise sellers would become to big of an issue and this would in turn FEED gil sellers which is never a good thing to do.

sometimes someone got rl issues and cannot play for some reason and you have to replace them. its not really fair to be punished with a coffer loss for such cases i say for example. but aslong as there is only 1 or 2 helpers dont touch the loot i say. sure keep the restriction so they cannot roll. thats fine imo.

Say that again the next time you wipe due a single person goofing up repeatedly.

In coil, one person can greatly increase the chance of a clear if they are not error prone (i.e. Experienced) and are able to optimize how they play (i.e. Something that comes with experience).

An experienced person actually in the fight can also give more effective feedback about what the group might be doing poorly.

[Yukiko]

They were all over if you cared to look for them. Members of my static got help with everything from T9 forward from several people that already knew the content. We paid that help forward by running learning parties of our own later on, mostly in the weeks leading up to Heavensward. I've actually been PM'ed by random people from linkshells or even just from standing around town asking for help with content, and if I'm not busy typically I'll throw some time at it. Most of the members of my static have joined existing learning parties to help out as well.



All I can say is that you have to work for it like everyone else. Take the effort to put up a learning party in PF. Join a raid linkshell. Hell, join a social linkshell and ask if there's other people that want to learn or people that can help you learn. If you don't bother to look for help, then you can't really expect to get any. As far as mercs go, it is what it is. Some people want to just pay to get the clear and I see nothing wrong with providing that service. Others want to learn, and that's awesome. It's always great to see someone that actually wants to do it themselves.

I hope you are talking generally and not directly to me...

So basically if someone is telling you from experience what is happening, for you its just like a lie... is that how you treat others?

Maybe its just an issue on my server, but i tested on other servers too... well, not on Sargatanas or Jenova but in FACT majority of players who are seeking dont get adequate help because there is NO one helping and sorry but thats a FACT... go to portal, shout for help and count the time untill "someone" is answering! (You can do the groupfinder thingy for 4h and try it with hardcore kicking every 2 runs, or because on every wipe someone says: "sorry have to go") Stop blubbing nonsense from FCs or such because thats not what is actually (or was in FCoB) happening. Yea, your FC is sooo awesome, how great you are and so... really? it sounds more like an advertisement than a real mirroring of the situation!

@CGMidlander: What do you aim with your reply? It would help others more if you tell them how you have found your linkshell and not how awesome "you" are...

Edit: (just to mention) I often see Situations where "one" (to simply tie it up i say one, in real its a bit more coplicated with prime times and player motivations, so just to drama it lets say "one player") is helping but he/she/they cant help everyone who is seeking! After hours of helping there is still a lot who is asking for help but he/she/they simply need a break...

[CrimsonThunder]

The majority won't help because if even half the community learns to do a lot if this hardcore content then they lose the profitability of selling these runs to the 'lesser' players.

Kudos to the ones that do but the greed outweighs the minority.

[Ashkendor]

I hope you are talking generally and not directly to me...

So basically if someone is telling you from experience what is happening, for you its just like a lie... is that how you treat others?

Sorry, but I have just as much right to share my personal experience as you do. My personal experience is that the people that complain the loudest about not being "able" to find help with content are those that don't actually look. They open up Party Finder, don't find what they're looking for, and chalk it up to nobody else wanting to do what they want to do. Someone has to start the party, and many people just don't want it to be them for whatever reason; they'll join if they see it, but if they don't they won't start one. If your personal experience is that you've actually looked for help and not found it, I'm sorry to hear that. My experience doesn't invalidate yours, or vice versa; it just shows that people exist that have different experiences and that neither is the only point of view.

Maybe its just an issue on my server, but i tested on other servers too... well, not on Sargatanas or Jenova but in FACT majority of players who are seeking dont get adequate help because there is NO one helping and sorry but thats a FACT... go to portal, shout for help and count the time untill "someone" is answering! (You can do the groupfinder thingy for 4h and try it with hardcore kicking every 2 runs, or because on every wipe someone says: "sorry have to go")

This isn't my personal experience either. Shouting isn't necessarily all that effective, but I've found Party Finder to be a really useful tool for finding people on the same page as me. True, ragequitters and bad players are something everyone has to deal with. Sometimes you get unlucky. Sometimes, though, you find really good people to play with. Keep those people around. Add them to your friends list. Start a linkshell with them. Stay in touch. The fact that you've had several people in this thread alone say that they do help completely invalidates your statement about "no one helping". There are people helping, but we can't help everyone all the time.

Stop blubbing nonsense from FCs or such because thats not what is actually (or was in FCoB) happening. Yea, your FC is sooo awesome, how great you are and so... really? it sounds more like an advertisement than a real mirroring of the situation!

Sorry, but it is what actually happened. We spent the last six weeks leading to Heavensward running 3-4 hours worth of learning parties every Saturday night. There's a thread in the Sargatanas forum advertising it, and we advertised on the Sargatanas Facebook group too. It was something we specifically did in order to help the community. On top of that, many members of my static will jump into learning parties for various content just to help out, or even run that content in DF and get some lucky random a clear. We actually had a situation where a player that couldn't play during our normal learning party hours PM'ed the static leader to ask if we could teach him T13 at a time when he'd be available. He was in Europe, so the times we play are very very late for him and he just couldn't be on due to his work and family. We did it, because we genuinely enjoy helping people. We enjoy being there to share those first clear moments even with people we don't even know. It has nothing to do with advertising or trying to make ourselves look good or anything of the sort, and everything to do with the fact that we simply enjoy helping.

There are people out there willing to help, but unless you jump up and down and wave a flag that says "HEY I WANT TO LEARN THIS" we don't know you want help. We barely know you exist! You're a name among hundreds of names that we see run by in Mor Dhona (well, Idyllshire now) every day. Put that learning party up. Join some linkshells. Ask around. Do what you can to make yourself stand out from all of the other white names running around. :3