Astrologian buffs confirmed

[RazeLandale]

I read an extremely interesting idea earlier:
What if Synastry was a permanent buff?

Maybe if it were nocturnal stance only? It'd give the stance something to actually make it better at healing, which it doesn't have right now(The shields give you a alternative way to heal, but don't actually make you any better at it). Giving up hots on both tanks probably makes for a fair trade. The hots being probably a bit better sustained, but synastry having the option to kick it up a notch with benefic II. No real synas...synergy with shields though, admittedly.

[LycorisSelunis]

here is my 2 cents for the time being.....

-lightspeed reduce mana cost, tweak the potency loss to 10-15%, and reduce gcd

-benefic 2 proc remove from gcd

-draw restore 1-2% mp

-collective unconscious make placeable ground aoe

-celestial opposition add a sect component. a constellation-like chain heal for diurnal and a defense increase for nocturnal perhaps, and/or make the stun into a unique debuff

-synastry grant a healing increase on the main target. this makes it either the split healing tool it is right now, or something for healing a spiking tank

[Nihility]

since the ideas for reworking the class are going about i'll throw in what i feel would improve it
the base healing benefic, benefic II, helios, etc is actually all totally fine. The slightly faster or stronger from the sects does make up for the lower potency numbers at current gear levels at least
also don't really have a problem with the dps skills being on the weaker side
with that said here goes

enhanced benefic: should also include a mp cost -50% component for mana efficiency

lightspeed: the negative potency needs to be removed and then enhanced lightspeed can be a small, maybe potency+10%, or so buff. Reason being even with no negative potency the GCD is still in effect making lightspeed be just a mobility buff and not an actual healing buff like other healers have. the enhanced trait could also be a GCD lowering thing for thematic reasons but that would make it start being a massive mana hog

enhanced essential dignity: have it change essential dignity to a charge system where you gain a charge every time you draw a card with a max of 2 or 3. Reason: essential dignity is a great spell but it is not enough by itself to fill the need it is designed for and with a charge system in place during periods it is not needed you can use essential dignity charges when your about to draw for the sake of mana efficiency as well. Also kind of thematically cool...

aspected benefic: make it so the base cure is always 250 and the nocturnal shield gets a multiplier like 50% or so(ex. 1000 heal would generate a 1500 shield) Reason: the regen aspected benefic is same total potency as regen but more than double the cost so a stronger base heal would offset that and make it more worth using, the noct version is the most mana inefficient heal in the entire game and the shield portion is why you use it so just make the shield itself stronger until it is worth the cost

disable: change it to "next skill or spell" instead of any outgoing damage and the problem with it getting eaten by invisible auto attacks during a cast bar is no more

aspected helios: just needs a small base potency boost to get it inline

synastry: would really love to see this be a full time thing like beacon of light since it only works with benefic and benefic II and doesn't work with overhealing but it is actually totally fine as is for ffxiv usage

time dilation: fix the description so it doesn't sound amazing just to find out it only works with cards and "aspected" buffs

celestial opposition: change it to be a stance switch and can leave the 5s buff duration thing in tact, also lower the cooldown a lot. It was never worth a 2.5 minute cooldown to begin with honestly

collective unconscious: the animation alone is worth trying to preserve it in it's current functionality. My feeling is with the whole 18s self imposed stun to get full effect and small player based aoe nature of it. give it a long cooldown like 3 minutes and make the effect huge to the point of being worth the downsides. Like pulsing 300 potency heals/25%+ damage reduction while your able to maintain it.
It really wouldn't be overpowered in the sense it's still a small aoe around yourself disabling you from doing anything else at all while it's going. I may not have even suggested big enough numbers to push it into worthwhile territory even...

on to cards.
shuffle needs to be lowered to 60s and have a "can't draw the same card you discarded" part added
ewer and spire should have a ballad/paeon effect added they're sort of bleh as they are now and even that really wouldn't do much for spire
bole can have an outgoing healing+10% buff added to it so it can be a tank/healer card instead of just tank
spear is really sort of iffy, it's current effect is too situational and changing it to a GCD reduction just makes it a mimic of arrow. A critical hit chance buff would be solid i think, good for everyone


and that's my thoughts.
improved mp efficiency
an actual healing power cooldown
more and more flexible emergency healing
a more reliable "virus" cooldown
more standout and useful class defining heals
an actual big cooldown skill
a way to actually stance swap and be a hybrid while still keeping it limited in nature
making more draw options valuable and allowing shuffle to more reliably manipulate your hand

[NorthernLadMSP]

I do want a stance based effect added to Celestial Opp. Either a heal or regen in Diurnal and a bole like dmg reduction or a shield in Nocturnal. However, I do not want Celestial Opp to force you into a stance change. If they are going to modify AST to allow them to change stances in battle, it better be a voluntary change, not something that is an auto change when you use Celestial Opp.

[RichardButte]

Is an Eye for an Eye that doesn't need to be procced by physical hits weak?

E4E lasts 30 seconds on the target, can be procced multiple times by physical attacks, with the debuff lasting 20 seconds, and most importantly, the debuff can be applied to any number of targets hitting the tank instead of just one.

5% raid damage for 15s seconds or 15% single target is weak?

It's 5/10% for 15 seconds, and yeah, considering the random nature of the buffs, assume you'll only get it 1 in 6 draws, so divide the buff by 6 and you have the actual, statistical average of how much more DPS an AST will give a single target with every draw.

Individually, the buffs even without Royal Roading are more than fine, especially since they are available every half a minute. The real 'issue' is RNG. Everyone brings up the bad RNG like Spires in a row for card effect buffs, and conveniently forget that SE has to balance around really good RNG as well. AST already has Spread which guarantees at least 1 'useful' card every minute.

The buffs range from negligible to almost entirely worthless, and all but two are HUGELY situational, and that's half of the reason the buffs are so terrible.

And the problem is not that the good RNG is balanced around bad RNG. The problem is that the AST is balanced around having weaker healing options (mainly in the coverage and emergency departments) in exchange for the cards, but the cards just ain't worth it.

The CHANCE of boosting the party's DPS by 5% for 15 seconds isn't worth losing out on the emergency healing, better utility, and better MP management of the other healers. It just ISN'T.

If the AST could reliably buff the party with 5% DPS once per minute, sure, then you might be looking at the class being worth bringing, but the odds sit WAY against that happening.

[justinjarjar]

Are we going to get buffs with alex... or should I level WHM?

[Rahaya]

E4E lasts 30 seconds on the target, can be procced multiple times by physical attacks, with the debuff lasting 20 seconds, and most importantly, the debuff can be applied to any number of targets hitting the tank instead of just one.

You do realize...Eye for an Eye having to be procced on everything hitting the tank is a negative right? If it only procs on one of three adds, it's flat out worse than a Bole until all three proc it. And it has a 20% chance to proc until then, and good luck proccing it for magic damage and slow hitting bosses. Does it even work on Alex 4 right now? Bole lasts 15 seconds. 5 second difference for a flat 10% damage down on everything hitting the tank. The RNG moved from applying to having it and this is without Royal Roading or using Time Dilation. 1 in six draws is still a Bole every 180 seconds. EfaE CD is 120 with more drawbacks.

It's 5/10% for 15 seconds, and yeah, considering the random nature of the buffs, assume you'll only get it 1 in 6 draws, so divide the buff by 6 and you have the actual, statistical average of how much more DPS an AST will give a single target with every draw.

I was referring to the RR options of the card. The Balance on a single target without RR is 10%. Enchanced is 15%. 5% is AoE raidwaide. Getting the card on a mnk for example, using 1 in six by throwing out every card but the Balance and completely disregarding Royal Road is a Third Blood for Blood within a three minute time frame. It looks small statistically, but that is not the same thing as being statistically irrelevant. Especially since none of these 'statistics' are compared to what is already in the game. How much of a raid increase is my mnk's Blood for Blood? Small right? It's worthless then! Shouldn't even cross class it.

Of course completely ignoring the other 5 cards drawn every thirty seconds in the mean time.

I already said the AST needs it's CDs fixed. There is your additional healing utility (fixing Collective and Lightspeed), raid utility (Celestial). The cards are *not the problem* and are *more* than sufficient once AST has CDs worth using. This isn't about the cards carrying the AST's issues. This is about people like yourself having a very narrow minded view of what the cards are worth, and completely missing the real issues. AST needs better healing CDs. Base healing is fine. Cards are fine. MP management will probably be sufficient once we have actual healing CDs to depend on, we'll see. All three are being addressed as per the live letter.

[RichardButte]

You do realize...Eye for an Eye having to be procced on everything hitting the tank is a negative right? If it only procs on one of three adds, it's flat out worse than a Bole until all three proc it. And it has a 20% chance to proc until then, and good luck proccing it for magic damage and slow hitting bosses. Does it even work on Alex 4 right now? Are you even trying with this? Bole lasts 15 seconds. 5 second difference for a flat 10% damage down on everything hitting the tank. The RNG moved from applying to having it and this is without Royal Roading or using Time Dilation. 1 in six draws is still a Bole every 180 seconds. EfaE CD is 120 with more drawbacks.

I realize all of this, and E4E is still better than a buff that cannot be relied upon

And it's not like that's SCH's only option: SCH could spend one Aetherflow stack to put up a Sacred Soil to shield everyone inside it from 10% damage, without having to worry about drawing an Aetherflow randomly first.

but that is not the same thing as being statistically irrelevant.

Hard for it to be relevant when the raid wipes.

And considering the chances against it happening, it's WAY too small of a buff.

Part of the problem is that SE doesn't seem to grasp how "risk vs. reward" happens to work. If AST is to be a tradeoff class that provides extra DPS and utility in exchange for weaker emergency options, then those buffs have to deliver tangible results.

The buffs can occasionally boost DPS 17% of the time, but AST is lacking weaker emergency options and coverage 100% of the time, and unlike the DPS boost, those are absolutely needed to save the group from wiping.

But we've both come to the same conclusion:

I already said the AST needs it's CDs fixed. There is your additional healing utility (fixing Collective and Lightspeed), raid utility (Celestial). The cards are *not the problem* and are *more* than sufficient once AST has CDs worth using. This isn't about the cards carrying the AST's issues. This is about people like yourself having a very narrow minded view of what the cards are worth, and completely missing the real issues. AST needs better healing CDs. Base healing is fine. Cards are fine. MP management will probably be sufficient once we have actual healing CDs to depend on, we'll see.

I agree that they should just improve the healing cooldowns and be done with.

If AST is going to be dumped into DFs with terrible players who get hit by everything, then they should have the emergency tools to get the group through like SCH/WHM do. I used to think, "Well, if the buffs are powerful enough to be worth the tradeoff..." but no, this isn't a DPS class that can make that kind of tradeoff. This is a healer, and healers are expected to be able to keep the group alive, even when that group gets hit by lots of things.

So yeah, improve the cooldowns until AST is not quite as good as WHM/SCH instead of nowhere near as good and the class will be fine.

[Parawill]

Without going into too much detail, the issue that immediately comes to mind is that there is little room in the meta for "defensive" party comps. There's simply no reason to stack all the mitigation in the world when what you really need is just enough mitigation to handle mechanics and then as much DPS as you can possibly get.

Hmm that is true, especially considering high DPS makes encounters relatively easier, in general anyways (Hehe, bad phase transitions in T7 with no voice or shriek to refresh petrify on renauds). The train of thought was sparked when I was discussing machinist's role and benefits versus a bard. Their physical damage and magic damage down caught my eye, but I guess I got too carried away with the idea!

First of all, forming a raid group around the weaknesses of the AST isn't going to go over well with many players. If I was told I couldn't bring my BLM because we need to build the raid around compensating for the weaknesses of the AST, it's only going to stoke the flames of animosity toward ASTs.

I'm not going to lie, I totally forgot about how horrible that would be in game design. Completely switching party setup to make up to cover up one member. Thank's for pointing that out!

Second, if savage encounters are lenient enough on healing that you can lean on one healer to do the majority of the healing, then the encounters are going to steamrolled by groups bringing two reliable healers, unless every encounter has a DPS check with a wipe mechanic, but it's not like AST can reliably get a RRed Balance every single time, either. The odds are sadly in favor of the AST actually adding no meaningful contribution via their cards at...all. Building around an AST is just inviting trouble.

And if you COULD build a group that would only need one healer, you'd be better off building that group with one extra DPS instead of an AST.

At this point, I think they should just give the AST some more healing potency and call it a day.

-Remove the stupid 25% potency reduction on Light Speed and have it reduce the GCD as well
-Let us move while in CU so we don't waste it seconds after we cast it when a random AoE pops up
-Maybe make ED 20 seconds instead of 40 for CD
-Make the CD on LA 90 seconds instead of 120
-Let Noct stance's shields crit like SCH's do

There, now the AST will be only slightly less reliable than one of the other healers instead of massively less reliable, and the cards will still be shit the majority of the time but will occasionally help the party a little bit.

100% agreed to Light Speed and CU. I'm hoping for some stance dancing with CO for some fun utility since I'd really prefer Nocturnal CU over Diurnal CU since I only really use it to top everyone off in a "stand around doing nothing phase" or during a phase transition where you, once again, stand around and do nothing. LA I'm a bit iffy with, but I can understand where you're coming from considering we only have one way to restore mana and using Ewer ourselves (for a lack of a better word) is lame.

@ Bolded statement. That's a very good point. If you don't need the extra heals, why not just bring a DPS! That's what I did in T7 pre-echo. Kicked the other healer to bard so I could solo heal and they could just DPS... Since I was literally twiddling my thumbs waiting for damage on my White Mage (aside from the occasional Aeros and Stones).

AST still has issues with its capstone abilities being very lackluster. Celestial Opposition needs to do more for the cooldown, period. The channeled ability sacrifices too much for the end result. Lightspeed is bad. However, aside from that AST is SCH 2.0. SCH is the new WHM. WHM got better.

Apparently. In spite of SE being the one to make both the AST and the raids and we aren't in Binding Coil where there was a gear gap and the devs didn't expect people to get as far as they did.

What *I* don't understand is how people say the AST buffs are weak. Is the comparison taking place in a vacuum? Is an Eye for an Eye that doesn't need to be procced by physical hits weak? 5% raid damage for 15s seconds or 15% single target is weak? Etc, etc. Individually, the buffs even without Royal Roading are more than fine, especially since they are available every half a minute. The real 'issue' is RNG. Everyone brings up the bad RNG like Spires in a row for card effect buffs, and conveniently forget that SE has to balance around really good RNG as well. AST already has Spread which guarantees at least 1 'useful' card every minute.

It feels like they're a mash-up of WHM and SCH 2.0! I feel like I should just be stubborn and keep playing AST in all content to get a much better feel for it since 2 to 3 weeks of AST, I'm still finding tricks here and there. I think my major gripe aside from LS, CU and CO is the fact that people mention you should try and use AB and AH Diurnal Stance so that you have two HoTs ticking. Maybe because I was a WHM before and never needed Regen and Medica II on the tank 'cause I had Divine Seal, but the thought of spending 2.5 GCDs (0.5 added because AH takes longer to cast) and a ridiculous amount of mana for an extra 50 potency HoT sounds so silly!

As for the cards feeling weak, I think it's cause you don't personally see the damage increase and at times, you don't really feel it has done anything at all. I don't know where I stand around the cards, but some tweaks would be nice. Most notably would be Ewer and Spire. Sometimes you get Ewer when you actually need a Spire... and it's quite annoying. :P

The E4E vs. Bole though... I think the reason why I would personally justify E4E being better is that though it does have RNG tied with the skill, there is I guess... A better chance for it to proc than you to pull a Bole during a situation that needs it. Though like you said, you could Spread a card and save it for later use... Like RNG, there are times where you just don't get that Bole.

On a side note, I hope I make any sense @.@ Sometimes I just got overly excited. I'm sorry!
(Thank you for the replies! I'm learning!)

[FoxyAreku]

You know what I'd like? For time dilation to make nocturnal stance shields stronger, maybe double the effect or something.
It increases the duration of regens which is great. But what the heck is the point of increasing the duration of a shield? That essentially does nothing.