Curious on opinion. Smn or Mch. Which would you pick?

[Sen_Terrechant]

Except a class shouldn't only be useful in endgame content and a burden in other content. A well-built support class supports the party through everything, not just in a couple of instances.

In what content are they a burden? You could literally clear Ravex/Bisex/Alexander with any combination as long as you have atleast one healer and tank. You could run with 7 DRK and a SCH if you wanted. Dosent matter.

If you think being a burden is doing 200 less max damage compared to a melee (or 50-100 compared to a caster) then oh.. boo hoo?

[Greywolfamakir]

If you think being a burden is doing 200 less max damage compared to a melee (or 50-100 compared to a caster) then oh.. boo hoo?

If You do less DPS, boss takes longer...if boss takes longer You are not helping to kill him, You are making him a bit harder...just a burden, You can remove MCH or BRD, add NIN/DRG/MNK/SMN/BLM and boss is gonna be killed faster...making boss easier...

I don't understand why people can not see that easy as fuck logic...for real...

[Ryaz]

If You do less DPS, boss takes longer...if boss takes longer You are not helping to kill him, You are making him a bit harder...just a burden, You can remove MCH or BRD, add NIN/DRG/MNK/SMN/BLM and boss is gonna be killed faster...making boss easier...

I don't understand why people can not see that easy as fuck logic...for real...

Because some people think end game raiding content is the only important content, even though a lot of people farm easier stuff all the time and MCH/BRD slows that down. I'm not even asking for more dps. Just to have our party support abilities useful all the time instead of just in progression groups as "oh ****" buttons.

[Sen_Terrechant]

Because some people think end game raiding content is the only important content, even though a lot of people farm easier stuff all the time and MCH/BRD slows that down. I'm not even asking for more dps. Just to have our party support abilities useful all the time instead of just in progression groups as "oh ****" buttons.

Its the only time class balance actually matters. So sorry you think the game should be balanced around 4 man dungeons, ex primals and crystal tower.

Furthermore progression groups dont use your support tools as oh shit buttons, progression groups use the support abilities to prevent having to use oh shit buttons.

[Atlaworks]

Its the only time class balance actually matters. So sorry you think the game should be balanced around 4 man dungeons, ex primals and crystal tower.

Furthermore progression groups dont use your support tools as oh shit buttons, progression groups use the support abilities to prevent having to use oh shit buttons.

Why does balance only have to be around either raids or four man content? Can't it just be balanced around both?

Saying either one doesn't matter is kind of silly.

[Sen_Terrechant]

Why does balance only have to be around either raids or four man content? Can't it just be balanced around both?

Saying either one doesn't matter is kind of silly.

If they made 4 man dungeons hard, and made them require people playing their classes well- then sure make them content that the game is balanced around. I guess i should say this then- the game should never be balanced around the easiest content.

[Ryaz]

If they made 4 man dungeons hard, and made them require people playing their classes well- then sure make them content that the game is balanced around. I guess i should say this then- the game should never be balanced around the easiest content.

But they also shouldn't render the classes most touted features as useless either. I'm not saying the game needs to be balanced around easy content, but give us incentive to actually use them in other content as well. Not sure why a support dps actually wanting to use its support abilities in all content is really that much of an issue, especially if we're giving up DPS to provide that support.

[Sen_Terrechant]

snip

Its not, but you complaining about not being able to use some of the best support in a game in dungeons so easy any class composition could do it. Im sorry? Like i dont get what your asking for, if you make their support or DPS better at this point, then they are too good. I dont get why this seems to be rocket science for people.

Unless they make the content like that harder, there is no reason to use anything on any class. You can pretty much clear that content without knowing how to play your class. So yes, when the content is so easy a child with a lobotomy can do it, your support abilities seem lackluster.

[Ryaz]

Ok, let's look at this from another angle. You're a SMN. You have Virus, a battle rez, some off-healing you can do and let's that can perform various functions for support-- dps, some off-tanking, etc. How about whenever you use a battle rez, you lose 10% of your damage until weakness wears off. Oh and you're overall damage takes a hit because, you know, support abilities. That's basically what we get. Yet you have some powerful support abilties yourself and take no damage hit. Must be nice.

You know what real support abilities are? Abilities in WoW like Mark of the Wild, Trueshot Aura, etc. Providing continuous support the party. They're always useful in all content, not just end game. Heck, in this game Foe's Requiem is a good example of a good support ability.

[Sen_Terrechant]

Whenever i use a battle rez my damage does go down, my limited resource pool takes quite a hit (Yes if your playing SMN correctly at the moment mana is still a resource) god forbid its a long rez either. Many classes also have virus (but we do get the good one that reduces magic damage) as well as E4E. I dont think you quite realize the impact of TP song for melee either, you add a massive amount of damage to them. Yes other classes have support abilities, but if you think, say, Trick attack has the same impact as TP song thats kinda hilarious.

There is a reason Bard has always had a raid spot, and will continue to have a raid spot.

I think you might want to just switch classes and derp around on that class, except you would most likely take to the forums to complain about why Y is underpowered compared to X.

Im not even sure why i read these forums sometimes, except i think i like arguing with people that have zero clue how to play this game at a higher level than aforementioned lobotomized child.