I chose BRD for swift gameplay, if I wanted to cast I would have chosen a Mage.

[Gamer3427]

Nope...it is in fact different for BRD. WM is deactivated upon reuse--you have to wait for the 15 second cooldown and cast it again to remove it. You can't click the icon on your status bar, and you can't queue it up again right after using it. You get a message that it is not available yet until the cooldown expires. You can't just pop in and out of the stance continually. It requires careful consideration for when to use and not use it during a fight--and it seems many players are preferring to keep their strafing/auto-attack options open.

In regards to this, I think you may have misunderstood what I meant, which could be do to not wording my sentence perfectly. You still have the 15 second cooldown timer on GB. It just starts when you first activate the skill, and thus you have a 15 second time period where you cannot deactivate the skill. Deactivating the skill by reusing it on the other hand does not start the 15 second cooldown however. This means that you can reactivate it immediately after you first deactivate it, but not vice versa.....

As for...

The boost only applies to the WS.

I'm pretty certain this is false. For every source I can find online in regards to comparing the WM and GB, they share the exact same effect, with the exception of WM also adding that it can be used with other songs. I also just did some damage testing to confirm, and GB does in fact apply it's buff to ALL attacks made by you, (but not your turret, which has no relation to bard anyhow), including OGC skills and crossclassed skills, (Read: Feint, which as I discussed earlier does not have the cast time as your basic attacks do when in GB stance, meaning you can still use the boosted version of it while moving in the caster stance). Again though, this is all doing testing on MCH, as I lack a Bard at that point. However, since the two skill descriptions are exactly the same, and have the same intent behind them, I find it highly unlikely that BRD would have added downsides to it that aren't listed when compared to the MCH version.......

If an actual BRD other than you wants to either dispute or confirm my findings, I would greatly appreciate it. I say "other than you" Raist, as your information so far has been suspect and I feel as though it's all based on pure speculation, rather than actual testing of the skill itself......

Even if it does wind up being a big bump in DPS if managed well at 60, this is still a major revamp of how they already ran the job for 60 levels and in some cases it apparently is simply too off-putting for them to stick with it. Hopefully SE will one day take note of it and make adjustments to make people more comfortable with their vision. For now... there will be many unconvinced until we see some hard data demonstrating enough of a difference to sway them one way or the other.

As for this, I can agree that it is a change for the class, but your over all style is still the same. Again, you just have the option to reduce your mobility slightly to increase DPS. It really isn't as "big of a change" as everyone seems to claim, unless as a BRD you are constantly circle strafing enemies during the entire run. You are also not "forced" to use it if it really is that off putting for you. It's a DPS boost, but not one that makes or breaks the class. There will always be other people telling you that you play your class wrong no matter how you play it, so if your argument is that you "have" to use it because other people say you do, then grow a backbone, stand up for yourself, and prove that your preferred way of playing has it's merits as well. I'm sorry if that's rude, but you really can't be changing your entire way of playing just because some people are stuck in their ways. These same people are the ones who kick AST, BRD, and MCH players just because they see the class as bad, even if the player themselves were doing more than the WHM, NIN, and DRG in the party......

[SonTensei]

The bottom line is this they should have taken the new bard mechanics and make them exclusive to Machinist and left bard alone. there is no rationalizing with people who want to play a certain style, that is preference. you have people who are willing to adapt / adjust and others that will just go play something else. thats how it is. you cant make people like something.

[Cinicus]

This change is simply poor game design. This game trys to have this hybrid of action/turnbased combat and as so the brd class has been able to avoid most mechanics while still holding up good dps. they already nerfed brd dps pretty hard as when ARR came out they where doing redonk dps. now this is just the next step to "make" brd have to deal with the mechanics of new content.

[Rekujin]

A new class comes out.... give them the WM mechanic.

Why change an old class and upset a large number of players already used to 2.0 bard?

[Raist]

@ Gamer3427

Until you have played the job for nearly 2 years and then get this new approach crammed down your throat, perhaps you should not be debating the issues so much.

Sorry...don't want to be that guy, but think it needed to be said. You are arguing points without having even experienced the paradigm shift first hand.

I have been comparing the two stances in the field...ever since I got it at 52, and for 3 levels it has consistently been more frustrating, more prone to mistakes, and has put me at greater risk. That is why I stepped away and flipped to my SMN for a while instead. Even after picking up Empy, it still is clunky, kills can take longer on the more challenging targets because there is little margin for error by comparison, and I have frequently wound up with lower health when the target is killed. Several times I escaped with just a sliver of my life left.

I REALLY want to see this work out. I had unlocked the bow WS's in XI--so having these new attacks introduced is a bit of a thrill for me. You have no idea how pumped I was to see the announcements for both BLM and BRD. I have been trying to find my way with the new stance, but it is just fighting back too hard. It simply does not gel as well as the changes did with BLM and (so far) SMN.

I in fact spent a little time again tonight comparing some basic rotations on a dummy after reading some other threads, and it was just sooo frustrating trying to outpace the normal stance by trying to more fluidly work Empy into the rotation--which was the ONLY way I could out-pace the traditional approach. Was testing in the time span of one Flaming Arrow, and I HAD to work that in near flawlessly for two shots just to catch up--one needs Barrage on it to consistently pull ahead if your timing is a bit off on the other proc's (which are a lot easier to miss/delay with the way things queue while WM is up). And that is a big problem that I've been pointing out for a while now. WM is far too dependent on future skills to be viable in the kit. It should be able to stand on it's own merit and not require higher level skills to be justified in the rotation.

That is pretty much it in a nutshell for a lot of the players. It has made things much more complicated then they needed to be. They could have just given us Valor Minuet, and maybe gated the new Weapon Skills behind the song's activation instead of this convoluted approach. That would have been more in keeping with how some of the other jobs have kept more in synch with their traditional modes of play.

Edit: For those unfamiliar, Valor Minuet was a song that boosted everyone's attack, and in this game the caster would get a 20% penalty for singing---the balancing factor is built into the job/song design already.

[RiceisNice]

You won't see a true increase in damage output from GB/WM until level 60. Just having empyreal/gauss round isn't enough, nor is the 30% boost by itself going to make a significant difference. It's definitely a huge change from before though, where it was only a 20% increase (which still lead to a dps loss/1-3% increase on dummy for MCH, and barely noticeable increase for BRD on dummy parses) There are countless threads that go over how bard's gameflow is changed, though I'd direct to this one if you want a good summary.

My nutshell? WM and GB are both functionally same skills that make BRd and MCH more-or-less play the same, limiting the playstyle/gameplay variety between the two beyond what little utility they have that's unique to them. Bard was not designed with WM in mind, and it shows with how incredibly awkward and clumsy their gameplay is with WM active. That's not true with MCH since their abilities flow much better, the animation on split shot is short to accommodate even a 1-second GCD, and they're not fumbling over an oGCD that resets its own cooldown. I honestly have no idea what they were trying to do with MCH and BRD if they're both supposed to compete for a raid slot with each other.

[Rekujin]

They could have never introduced WM but made Emp/Iron Jaws have cast timers.

[Vespar]

So I guess SE decided to delete that other Bard thread I was commenting in yesterday. I actually went through my old posts and can't find any of the posts I made in there yesterday at all.

So, Will this thread get deleted too? You cant just silence your customers SE...

[Obysuca]

So, Will this thread get deleted too? You cant just silence your customers SE...

>_> Seems anytime someone has a problem with something / says anything that shows what XIV is really like, SE just deletes the topic. Guess they want to trap more new players into thinking the game is 100% perfect lol

[AdamFyi]

So, Will this thread get deleted too?

It depends, really. Topics get deleted mainly due to forum rules getting broken by the participants and a flood of reports going in. It can also get deleted if the topic goes astray or if there is a lot of negativity going on to the point of drastic measures being necessary. Heated arguments don't necessarily cause it to happen; more than likely it's the players outright insulting each other.

Will this topic get deleted? Maybe. I've had my fair share of reporting inappropriate posts here as well as the other deleted topic. The addition of Wanderer's Minuet has sparked a lot of discussion, and some just go overboard; evident in this topic as well. By no means are they silencing all of their players - it's just mostly the ones who take it a bit too far. They're just doing their job to keep the forums in check.