Fending vs. Slaying accessories at this point in the game

[pandabearcat]

Its useful for dungeons, esp mass pulling will even out the damage. Far better than just vit alone.

So while you probably shouldn't try to stack it at the expense of everything else, it is probably just as useful as say, skill speed or something.

[Yorumi]

SeraviEdalborez I think you misunderstand why I want to see the information on it. Look at it this way, the argument for str accessories is vit is useless after a certain point. That makes perfect sense.

In a worst case scenario, like the fights you mentioned, parry is equal to vit, useless. In any other scenario it would be better than vit above the survival level.

As for the point about parry being lifesaving, I'm not suggesting that at all. It certainly can't be counted on in that way. Bosses do more than just tank busters. Even if auto attacks don't need immediate healing, they eventually need to be healed at some point. Over the course of a fight parry will reduce this damage by some amount, meaning over the course of an entire fight, start to finish, a healer has to output less total healing.

That's why I'd like to see math on it. If we're going to say the vit isn't doing anything, parry is doing at least something most of the time and that's better than nothing.

[Phoenicia]

Its useful for dungeons, esp mass pulling will even out the damage. Far better than just vit alone.

Over prolonged periods of high damage, parry and block offer overall damage reduction, sure. But tell me where that matters in relevant content? For big packs? Sure, pop a CD or two, that's where Bulwark, Raw Intuition and Dark Dance shine. Funny thing? Those CDs are static percentage increases and should suffice flatten the damage curve. The 2~5% more parry from gear will not matter in the grand scheme of things.

I will be generous and assume a chance of 25% to parry if geared for it, it's still only a chance to reduce damage by 20%. Totaling a whooping 5% overall damage reduction assuming all incoming damage is a flat line with no spikes (Which is rarely the case). Helps? Yes. ZOMGGEARFORPARRY? Hell no.

GAH! 1k char limit sucks!

[TruebladeNuke]

Tanks: "You should be able to go STR and dps with the minimal HP and contribute more. If not, you need better healers."
Healers: "You should be able to switch to cleric and do some dps rotations before the tank needs healing. If not, you need better tanks."
DPS: "Why do mommy and daddy fight so much?"

Made me laugh, but it's also sadly true. The constant arguing about Strength VS Vitality accessories at one point made me consider just maining DPS roles from here on out. But I like playing as every role damn it.

I had a whole few paragraphs worth of words that explains where I stand in all of this, but I think I've stated my stance earlier in some other thread. Regardless, I can re-post said info if anyone is curious enough.

Also, that earlier comic about the WAR constantly in Deliverance screaming DPS over and over again still makes me laugh. XD

"TURN ON DEFIANCE ALREADY!"

"DPS! DPS! DPS! DPS! DPS!"

[Seshayn]

I'm gonna quote myself from another "OMG PARRY" thread..

"I think people miss the point of why parry (and block) aren't that great for tanking and, therefore, should NOT be geared towards.

It is not that parry and/or block are bad per se, parry and block are welcome mitigation, when they happen. Yes, parry scales so slow and you need ridiculous amounts for the percentage to count. But the real problem, and the reason, parry and block are "bad" is that you cannot 100% rely on them to be there when you need them. The tanking meta in this game is "fluff damage" until the "tank buster" comes in.

Fluff damage can be mitigated in many ways and is easy to heal anyways and is where healers go in their DPS stances. Even tank self heals are enough sometimes. Tank busters are what matters because that is what is going to kill your tank. Relying on crossing your fingers for a parry (or block) to mitigate said tank busters is fool hardy and stupid."

So essentially, you are saying all forms of mitigation aside from guaranteed mitigation are trash. That unless you have a 100% chance to do something or a flat % reduction to something, it's worthless. This is what you're saying. I guess valuing avoidance stats makes me too old school to be cool. I'm good with that.

I don't RELY on parry. I don't sit there before a tank buster, sacrifice a goat and pray to the 12 that I get that clutch parry. I have it so that it CAN work. Have you ever heard of someone who didn't work for you doing a good job as your employee?

Gotta buy a ticket to win the lottery little lady.

[Kiteless]

So essentially, you are saying all forms of mitigation aside from guaranteed mitigation are trash. That unless you have a 100% chance to do something or a flat % reduction to something, it's worthless.

Yes.

Certainty is important for high end content. Certainty is the difference between life and death 10 minutes into a hard raid boss.

[Phoenicia]

So essentially, you are saying all forms of mitigation aside from guaranteed mitigation are trash. That unless you have a 100% chance to do something or a flat % reduction to something, it's worthless. This is what you're saying. I guess valuing avoidance stats makes me too old school to be cool. I'm good with that.

I don't RELY on parry. I don't sit there before a tank buster, sacrifice a goat and pray to the 12 that I get that clutch parry. I have it so that it CAN work. Have you ever heard of someone who didn't work for you doing a good job as your employee?

Gotta buy a ticket to win the lottery little lady.

With a half decent healer that's worth more than a grain of salt, ANY damage you parry/block from a tank buster is just overhealing. Since in this meta, just like how tanks need to pop a CD for tank busters, healers need to pre-cast heals on said moves. You parry 20% from a 7k attack? Guess what? one of your two healers is probably doing at least 20% overhealing.

Avoidance is all nice and dandy... Except it doesn't exist in this game (Parry is not 100% damage reduction, it's only 20%. And you can't evade busters).

EDIT: I'm not undervaluing parry when it happens. I'm just saying gearing for it is hardly worth the effort. Even less when the return is not even noticeable.

[Yorumi]

Yes.

Certainty is important for high end content. Certainty is the difference between life and death 10 minutes into a hard raid boss.

This isn't what is being argued though. No one is suggesting trading certainty for uncertainty. Given enough trials a random event can be reduced to certainties. Math will show, over the course of a long fight parry, though random, will produce a guaranteed average x% mitigation. That can't be factoring into what an individual attack will do, but can be a consideration over an entire fight.

The biggest problem is so many are basically saying "we don't need proof, just trust us parry sucks and don't question it." That's a very good way to overlook things. Since tanks who are willing to invest in it have a choice in their stats in melded accessories I think it's worth knowing how all the stats interact so we can make the most informed decisions possible.

[Seshayn]

Yes.

Certainty is important for high end content. Certainty is the difference between life and death 10 minutes into a hard raid boss.

You are so wrong. If you have any certainty in a real raid encounter 10 minutes in, you're either getting carried or not doing it before it was cool (aka overgearing it/post-nerf)

[Disc]

So essentially, you are saying all forms of mitigation aside from guaranteed mitigation are trash.

The uninformed who stack parry will reduce total damage taken by 1-5% at most. Nobody cares about this because mp/healing is not as big an issue as DPS. It's considered useless for tank busters because you either survive them or you die, there is no in between. On the other hand, tanks who build for damage will be able to put out considerably more dps than parry builds. This makes them more valuable.

If you want to go out of your way to stack parry knowing this, that's on you. But it is a mediocre build.