Bard - they broke my job

[Zyrusticae]

Just wanted to post some amusing tidbits here.

Here's a poll showing how low BRD is in the DPS popularity rankings. Unsurprisingly, it's MCH that's dead, DEAD last.

Here's a more detailed poll showing that a significant number of respondents were disappointed with BRD, though an even higher number were disappointed by AST and MCH. The number of those disappointed with BRD is twice as high as the number of those who decided to continue maining BRD. Unsurprisingly, a huge number of respondents were turned off by the playstyle change.

SE dun goofed, yo. It's indisputable at this point.

[Aiselia]

SE dun goofed, yo. It's indisputable at this point.

Your indisputable evidence is a poll that doesn't encompass the entire population?

[Argentt]

Your indisputable evidence is a poll that doesn't encompass the entire population?

That detailed poll was conducted on Reddit so it's biased toward their population. I'd argue that the population there are going to be more informed and less casual as a whole than the population of the game in general. I'd also say that casual players are even more likely to quit bard due to the increased difficulty of playing the class.

[justinjarjar]

That detailed poll was conducted on Reddit so it's biased toward their population. I'd argue that the population there are going to be more informed and less casual as a whole than the population of the game in general. I'd also say that casual players are even more likely to quit bard due to the increased difficulty of playing the class.

IDK about reddit being the best subset of players still. The poll itself however does not show a significant change and for the most part is pretty useless as a tool. As well as casuals are a good chunk of the population and do have a say in the matter (that is like saying poor people should not have a say in government because they contribute less to government overall).

This is fun teaching people about poll math and ethics . Thanks guys for the interesting view points.

[Argentt]

IDK about reddit being the best subset of players still. The poll itself however does not show a significant change and for the most part is pretty useless as a tool. As well as casuals are a good chunk of the population and do have a say in the matter (that is like saying poor people should not have a say in government because they contribute less to government overall).

They're far from the best It's just more of a statement of the general group that reads/posts there. I could say the same applies to people posting here as well though, that they're likely to be less casual and more informed about the game just because they care enough to be posting and trying to improve the game.

I don't mean to disparage casual players either, as they keep the game afloat. There were a LOT of casual player bards out there though, and I think we're just starting to see the effects of 3.0 class changes on them.

[justinjarjar]

I know that is why i added the edit to let you know that I get the displeasure and it is nice to know what your peers think of the job change, but overall Bard is still in a good place with numbers of players and dps/support use as well. The poll in question however is not broad enough and tends to be more incline with a poll a new station would quote to make their "side/story" work better. Always be careful with polls since anyone who has done sanctioned polls knows that a lot of time and work goes into wording the questions and making sure you have a good sample, which a lot of polls either do not because of not putting it into consideration or on purpose to make the results the poll maker wants.

[justinjarjar]

The numbers do only show that BRD is not the most mained. The numbers between why you dislike your job/did not main are not directly showing that all the people disliked BRD playstyle (since i know anti DRG, BLM, and AST forum posts about playstyle) While I agree there are people that dislike the new playstyle of BRDs, many that main it are over it by now or simply want changes to procs to make it work with WM better. On the case of MCH if this was taken pre-fix then that would explain the large decline of mained MCHs. Overall the numbers do not show a huge correlation between WM and BRDs not being mained. Also as stated if this was pre-fix then the numbers at this point are more towards anti-MCH (as well as many people tryed MCH and found it not there play style nothing to do with the job being bad. I agree that some changes still need to be done to AST, but I think expecting Jobs to be OP instead of UP was a good idea, since buffing is taken better than nerfing.

[Zyrusticae]

Your indisputable evidence is a poll that doesn't encompass the entire population?

Your only rebuttal is to reveal your ignorance of how statistical evidence works?

Assuming the game has a population of 5 million subscribers (it doesn't, but for the sake of argument we'll need assumptions), to get a confidence level of 99(+/-3)% only requires a sample size of 1846 players. With the poll with over 11,000 respondents we have a confidence level of 99(+/-1.2)%, which is extremely reliable.

The numbers do only show that BRD is not the most mained. The numbers between why you dislike your job/did not main are not directly showing that all the people disliked BRD playstyle (since i know anti DRG, BLM, and AST forum posts about playstyle) While I agree there are people that dislike the new playstyle of BRDs, many that main it are over it by now or simply want changes to procs to make it work with WM better. On the case of MCH if this was taken pre-fix then that would explain the large decline of mained MCHs. Overall the numbers do not show a huge correlation between WM and BRDs not being mained. Also as stated if this was pre-fix then the numbers at this point are more towards anti-MCH (as well as many people tryed MCH and found it not there play style nothing to do with the job being bad. I agree that some changes still need to be done to AST, but I think expecting Jobs to be OP instead of UP was a good idea, since buffing is taken better than nerfing.

For the record, BRD was the single most popular DPS job pre-Heavensward. Here's a really old poll showing this was the case. Same thing with a more recent poll. Even anecdotal evidence bore this out as you frequently saw all-BRD parties in the DF pre-Heavensward, especially in the CT dungeons (good luck if you wanted Bard drops!).

People switched. Tons of bards just quit playing the job.

[justinjarjar]

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Bards being the number one main had to deal with the nerfs way before HW. The numbers of the poll you showed before showed less people wanting to main them before HW anyways. We also poll for president and it has shown that it is only good with multiple polls that target different demigraphs. A good poll would be 1000+ bards month before/month after HW, poll of 1000+ Bards post-fix as well. You also need better worded questions (since many of the questions are not well worded or leading) as well as break downs on the more varied polls. We can argue more about math and proper polling if you want, but I am not sure how many classes and polls you have done at a collegiate level, but I have a lot under my belt at this point.

Now past that the number you showed shows 20% difference which is barley significant (not to mention that the population of the poll is not large enough to create significant results). So lets say 10% to save time on math if we take in account active players, that is not significant change to warren that Bard is dead because of WM.

And in no way am I saying that there is some displeasure in the clunkyness of WM or the lost procs, only that WM has not made the class not played, other factors would have to be put into account.

[Aiselia]

Your only rebuttal is to reveal your ignorance of how statistical evidence works?

Statistical evidence isn't irrefutable, though.

Let's say there's 5 million people playing the game.

11,000 voted in the poll. 4,989,000 didn't. That's a lot of people to ignore because your poll of significantly limited scope says one thing.

The only irrefutable evidence would be something official from SE stating what people have been playing.