Fending vs. Slaying accessories at this point in the game

[Swordphobic]

Full str tank=less healer dps, what part of it do you folks have a hard time understanding? You can't even start comparing a tank's aoe with a full batch of dots baned, shadow flare and miasma2. That and also in hard fights, if heals get stretched, dps might start dying due to the extra strain a tank's small hp bar puts on healer. Is it that hard to understand that having less str and more vit might actually mean more group dps?

[SpookyGhost]

Full str tank=less healer dps, what part of it do you folks have a hard time understanding?

Explain. Go. I'm all ears.

[Xenosan]

Bad Non optimal healing is a thing too.

2 Fractal runs with identical gear set on my DRK - first run with WHM, BLM/BLM dps - 30 minute instance.

Second run with SCH & BRD/MCH - 22 minute instance. Also 2nd run that SCH was either meeting or exceeding me in DPS every encounter.

Sometimes you have to look in the mirror :3

[dragoelete]

Bad Non optimal healing is a thing too.

2 Fractal runs with identical gear set on my DRK - first run with WHM, BLM/BLM dps - 30 minute instance.

Second run with SCH & BRD/MCH - 22 minute instance. Also 2nd run that SCH was either meeting or exceeding me in DPS every encounter.

Sometimes you have to look in the mirror :3

there is also the difference in the class scholar has a lot of dps skills that ignore the accuracy stat and will hit no matter what (all the DoTs...) WHM doesnt have that... there is also the fact scholar has no worry over MP unless @#$^ rlly hits the fan so they can DPS indefinitely depending on the tank and there fairy...

[Rhaja]

I'm honestly getting to the point that I want all that VIT to contribute beyond just HP. Like the HP returns on self healing are dictated by your VIT stat or something.

But that might be from the community being exceptionally vocal about going all STR since HW launch. Did A1 with another DRK who was also all STR, and we both did fine with CD management and cleared the fight in a single go in DF (rare for me). But the bitching didn't stop from start to finish. I'm even seeing groups getting mad at WAR's for being all/most STR >__>

Also have to wonder if its just because healers are mad they don't get to use their new attacks as much XD. Alas I gave up and keep a backup set of VIT accessories if the group needs it.

[Swordphobic]

Explain. Go. I'm all ears.

Most healers who dps start a pull in cleric stance and try to unload as much as possible untill the tank's hp passes a treshold, hence if you have more hp the healer will have more time before he switches off cleric stance to heal you. Once the tank is healed and if its hp offers a big enough window of oportunity, a healer can get back to dpsing again.

[Allyrion]

Most healers who dps start a pull in cleric stance and try to unload as much as possible untill the tank's hp passes a treshold, hence if you have more hp the healer will have more time before he switches off cleric stance to heal you. Once the tank is healed and if its hp offers a big enough window of oportunity, a healer can get back to dpsing again.

Tanks: "You should be able to go STR and dps with the minimal HP and contribute more. If not, you need better healers."
Healers: "You should be able to switch to cleric and do some dps rotations before the tank needs healing. If not, you need better tanks."
DPS: "Why do mommy and daddy fight so much?"

[SpookyGhost]

Most healers who dps start a pull in cleric stance and try to unload as much as possible untill the tank's hp passes a treshold, hence if you have more hp the healer will have more time before he switches off cleric stance to heal you. Once the tank is healed and if its hp offers a big enough window of oportunity, a healer can get back to dpsing again.

Let's make these numbers extremely drastic and call 1,000 HP the threshold before the tank needs to be healed.

Tank A has 15,000 life, tank B has 20,000 life (both are PLD for the sake of argument). Tank A reaches 1,000 HP after 14,000 points of damage. Tank B reaches 1,000 HP after 19,000 points of damage. If the boss were to die right then and there, then you would be at an advantage on DPS. However, if the boss doesn't, you now need to heal both of those tanks to full - tank B requiring 5,000 extra HP of healing. If you aren't going to heal tank B up to full, what was the point in having him have 5,000 extra points of HP to begin with?

Also to note, in content that actually matters, auto attacks are literally just fluff damage healed through with Regen/Fairy heals/etc and the occasional Cure. The only thing threatening a tank's life is a tank buster, which should be mitigated and the tank should be healed back to full (the less HP you have, the less healing you need to get back to full). These happen in very controlled environments where no one else in the party should be in a situation where they are about to die and can't wait the GCD or two for the tank to get to full. I've yet to see a DPS die during a tank buster.

[LunaFaye]

that moment when you wasted 90 minutes in an instance just to say hello to the enrage timer and that's even with healer dps'ing. Since most dps can't find their rotations I put my bet with the tanks. I as a healer can heal a fully STR tank and dps on top of that, but I understand if most healers can't do that. I will definitely leave a group if I see a vit/parry stacked tank.

[Xenosan]

PDEF & MDEF should be mentioned.. Especially at this time - when ALEX is on it's second week and tanks are upgrading.

Regardless of where you fall on the VIT/STR comfort level - as you gear up your left side, you could start swapping your VIT right side for STR and it not be for a loss.

I'm not talking about straight i180 VIT to i190 VIT leftside improviment - cuz you WILL lose max HP substituting a Fending accessory for STR - even if upping i180 to i190/ but the +PDEF/MDEF per leftside slot is a far greater gain than +/- an arbitrary amount of VIT via rightside.

So if ALEX NM is the only thing on your radar for a while - and for whatever reasons - you prefer all VIT, there's little to no reason not to start substituting that right side Fending for Slaying piece meal per left side upgrade. If you could do it with i180 PDEF/MDEF and focused ~VIT, you can do it i190 PDEF/MDEF with focused ~STR.

Naturally when (SAVAGE) is released the gear swapping cycle resets and the process starts anew,

Anyway that would be the process I'd recommend for tanks currently in all VIT wondering if the grass is greener on the other side.

there is also the difference in the class scholar has a lot of dps skills that ignore the accuracy stat and will hit no matter what (all the DoTs...) WHM doesnt have that...

Healer DPS is beside the point. The point is that I brought identical gear and WS/Spell/CD rotations to both instances, yet with one we wiped on the first large pull attempt - forcing to do short single pulls (a waste of the BLM/BLM potential). 2nd time not only were we capable of doing large pulls, but the healer was able to sustain me and still DPS (not an argument of SCH having better DPS, but an example broadcasting that my tanking wasn't inadequate and consequently forcing that healer to cure-bomb me and prevent DPS potential).

It's not always the tank. In that same vein, DPS jobs have a responsibility too. If they are subpar at their AoE rotations - the longer the encounters - the faster the Tank CDs are exhausted - the more likely a wipe.

There are 4 players in a dungeon - any 1 or more could be not holding their share of water. But nah - if things go bad, check out that tank, he's wearing Slaying - that's definitely why we can't. He's the problem. Nope nope it's not me at all.