Leveling a Dragoon after Heavensward - Bye bye Immerson! (MASSIVE SPOILERS INSIDE)

[Raeletta]

Hah! I was genuinly curious how they handled this when I saw the end of the 3.0 story. Funny thing is, I'm sure the same people who debated locking jobs behind Ishgard for "Lore Reasons" will likely rationalize this as being "Two different time periods" and say that the events of the cutscenes of DRG 2.0 took place before the events of 3.0. Lul.

Thanks for the information! I was honestly wondering while going through the story if Mr.Azure's armor would be red, and then I got to the end and was like, "I HAVE SO MANY QUESTIONS..."


Edit: Hot ****, see? They've already started with their flimsy excuse. Gotta love that lore narrative only being important when it applies to what you care about o/

Ishgard is totally inaccessible until you manage certain story feats, so jobs only available there were always going to be locked in there. Old job quests were always available and thus, always happened before Heavensward. It's not a flimsy excuse, it's a logical one when it comes to limiting the amount of reworking they would have to do.

I mean, what would they do in my situation? I levelled LNC/DRG to 34, so I've seen Estinien (Who acknowledged he knew me, but unlike others who maxed the class, I have never been recognised as an azure dragoon), but if I go back to it at this moment, it'd make no sense whatsoever unless it's essentially a flashback. To modify the story that first quest set up (Potentially once for each stage someone did / did not do before HW) would be pretty hard. I met the guy and he was a dick, if I go back for the 35 quest and he's simply never seen again, how do they replace him?

TL;DR, think for an additional moment and it works much simpler for all the stuff locked into 2.x to -always- have occured in 2.x

[Aldora]

I'll have to take that suggestion and pretend this is a memory! That being said, I don't think it would have been that complicated to make an alternative without Estinien - there are other Dragoons in Ishgard!

The reason I felt a bit disappointed is because there are plenty of npc's that have changed dialogue during and after Heavensward. I was hoping this attention would be brought to the job quests, though of course I do understand that would be more complicated than just changing a line of dialogue - but not by that much! They could have changed the name of the character without having to touch the model much. Could have changed a few lines of dialogue to place it in another context.

Hid my reply, due to possible spoilers for people who haven’t progressed through both the Dragoon Job Quests and the Main Story Quests.

But you being the Azure Dragoon, chosen by the Eye of Nidhogg, is integral to that story. Ishgard doesn't have either Eye anymore, so the entire thing would have to be re-written. They'd also have to re-write the 50-60 story since you wouldn't be the Azure Dragoon.

What Daralii said rings true and it would be strange to simply replace Estinien in the Dragoon Class Quests, due to the fact that there are only 2 Azure Dragoons in existence (which is being explained during the Job Quests. But, the story in the Dragoon Job Quests also explains more about Estinien himself. People would miss out on that little tidbit of information.

But, keep in mind that IF the Job quests would have to evolve based on the Main Story Quest, they still need to make sense within the Lore set for the game as well as the time and context in which the quests take place.

This will require more then just changing a name and a “few lines of text”. (^_~ ) As you progress through the Dragoon quests, you will witness events you could not have seen, if Estinien wasn’t involved within these quests like he is right now.

[hagare]

you did it in the wrong order.
if you had finished the DRG quest first, when you first meet estinien in the main story he'll recognize and acknowledge you.

this is basically the same reaction when people did the CUL Quest after nanamo was poisoned

[Eidolon]

TL;DR, think for an additional moment and it works much simpler for all the stuff locked into 2.x to -always- have occured in 2.x

Cheap and flimsy excuse by virtue of the fact that you could easily explain away your feats being completed in 2.0 and 3.0 being the start of its own story. GASP! It works both ways! "I didn't get Ishgard access pre-3.0, just like I didn't become an Azure Dragoon post-3.0."


See how flimsy the logic is when you "Think for an additional moment"? It's such a flimy argumenet that literally the arguement you try to make instantly can be turned around and thrown against it, and succeed.

I do not have any unreasonable expectations of SE. But I do think there are things that could be done far better - the content capping for new jobs, etc. is one of the biggest ones that I'm against. I do think it'd of been AWESOME if we had maybe another way to identify a new Azure Dragoon. Gods know they do things in handwaves saying there was "Another way" the whole time.

Let's take a look at Summoner:
Oh, you never actually fought Bahamut in 2.0? It's fine. YOU'RE TOTALLY ABLE TO CHANNEL HIS AETHER BECAUSE YOUR CHARACTER WAS AT CARTANEU.

Seriously? I hated this excuse for SMN. I was looking forward to something AWESOME, and instead got a handwave of an explanation. But you know what? At least contextually, it works. Just like any of the jobs being available pre-50 would've worked.

TL;dr. Think for a moment and it makes sense if all 2.0 stuff occurs in 2.0, and shouldn't be a limiting factor for the player accessing content outside of 2.0.

[Odstarva]

snip snip

I understand! I suppose if it was just the one quest it would be easier to replace, but being as it seems to be the whole job quests, there wasn't really much of a way around it. Oh well!

[TheCurls]

Cheap and flimsy excuse by virtue of the fact that you could easily explain away your feats being completed in 2.0 and 3.0 being the start of its own story. GASP! It works both ways! "I didn't get Ishgard access pre-3.0, just like I didn't become an Azure Dragoon post-3.0."


See how flimsy the logic is when you "Think for an additional moment"? It's such a flimy argumenet that literally the arguement you try to make instantly can be turned around and thrown against it, and succeed.

I do not have any unreasonable expectations of SE. But I do think there are things that could be done far better - the content capping for new jobs, etc. is one of the biggest ones that I'm against. I do think it'd of been AWESOME if we had maybe another way to identify a new Azure Dragoon. Gods know they do things in handwaves saying there was "Another way" the whole time.

Let's take a look at Summoner:
Oh, you never actually fought Bahamut in 2.0? It's fine. YOU'RE TOTALLY ABLE TO CHANNEL HIS AETHER BECAUSE YOUR CHARACTER WAS AT CARTANEU.

Seriously? I hated this excuse for SMN. I was looking forward to something AWESOME, and instead got a handwave of an explanation. But you know what? At least contextually, it works. Just like any of the jobs being available pre-50 would've worked.

TL;dr. Think for a moment and it makes sense if all 2.0 stuff occurs in 2.0, and shouldn't be a limiting factor for the player accessing content outside of 2.0.

I read this like four times and still can't figure out what you're trying to say.

[Eidolon]

I read this like four times and still can't figure out what you're trying to say.

I would love some more substance in your critique. Saying "I don't understand what you're trying to say" is a little but... vague. It makes it difficult to respond, because I don't necessarily know what to respond to. I suppose I will try to outline my thoughts:


1) Content should not be gated behind 3.0 story, because the same arguement that 2.0 content "Appeared in the past" on Dragoon, can be used to likewise say that the story of 2.0-2.55 "occured in the past." It's like watching the prequel to a movie (Even though 9/10 times that creates massive plotholes) after watching the first movie. It should only add to the story.

2) There are noted occurances where cheap excuses are given for things that don't quite make sense by my eye. The summoner being the biggest one I've noticed so far - where before, we fought the primals first and were bathed in their aether through combat, you now have that just being present at Cartaneu (I might be spelling it wrong, sorry) enables you to use Bahamut's Trance.

3) I do not think SE did a bad job. But I do think there are bad decisions made within the game design, which is my biggest thing that I always argue against. There will be various opinions on this, but it is what it is.

[AriaEnia]

Same thing maybe like when we're going to save Y'shtola. We need her half sister Y'mithra and if we've already done SMN's job quests, Tataru or someone will say "What? You already know her?" kind of like that. And also I think Kan-E-Senna's siblings nodded at me when they were about to leave after finished pulling Y'shtola out of lifestream because I've already finished WHM's job quests, like they've already known me.

[Whiteprincess]

Wait He was in the story before? sweet I gotta go back to watch my old cuts now lol

[Wilhem]

I just consider the job/class quests for 2.x content to be mostly flashbacks so I see no problem as far as immersion in the game world or my character's story is concerned.