Bard and Wanderer's Minuet use it

[Fyce]

I don't see how bard having a lower cast time than black mage is relevant to anything at all
or how adding cast times makes a job harder, since it makes bard easier to play

When the GCD is 2.5s and your cast time is 1.5s, it means that you kept ~50%ish of your mobility (including server lag which let you moves a bit before the cast ends).
Also, since bards still have a sh*tload of instant procs and oGCD skills while under WM, it means that the inpact on their mobility is actually very low.

If cast times were equals (or higher) than the 2.5s GCD, it would be a completly different story, but it's not. Bards are actually complaining for a very light and weak change.

[Sylve]

-

I'm unsure how anyone could claim it was otherwise. Before 3.01, maybe since it was only 20%. It's 30% damage up now, while also being instant to cast.
Minuet increases damage for the following skills:
-The entire Ability/Weaponskill list.

Auto Attack does the following:
- An X (Im sure someones run the math on this) potency attack every 2.6 seconds.

I just cant understand how anyone could find that they do more DPS with WM off unless its a fight that requires a lot of dodging. But then that's why it was made a toggle in the first place, So we could judge when we needed the extra DPS compared to being able to move about freely. That's not even counting the fact that Iron Jaws condenses DoT reapplication into one recast, freeing the second for another Heavy Shot.

[Rikkustrife]

Bards are actually complaining for a very light and weak change.

It's not though.
I don't see how going from being a job that can attack very quickly using several quick attacks in succession to being a job that can only attack once in 1.5 seconds is not a big change

[Sylve]

It's not though.
I don't see how going from being a job that can attack very quickly using several quick attacks in succession to being a job that can only attack once in 1.5 seconds is not a big change

Attacking quickly? uhhh If by that you mean Weaponskill+Auto+Bloodletter ... And for most of the time it was just HS+AA.
Sometimes you got that lucky double proc.
In a 2.5 second period, you get exactly 1 weaponskill and 1 off global shot. Trying to stick two in takes longer than 2.5 seconds and slows down your stronger Weaponskills.
So no, In that same 2.5 second period, you are STILL only doing 2 attacks.

[Malevicton]

It's not though.
I don't see how going from being a job that can attack very quickly using several quick attacks in succession to being a job that can only attack once in 1.5 seconds is not a big change

100% mobility to 50% mobility is a change. But people keep comparing it to blm (which has no mobility outside of stutter-stepping), which is false for the reasons he stated. You can still move with every single ability. It's nowhere close to blm immobility. Brd is still very mobile.

Edit:

The two little ovals is about the area where they'll never run to you. Give it a bit of a trial and error, and you'll find that sweet spot. I've cleared Bismarck Ex as BLM.

This is good advice. What I do is just stand in the green puddle near where you jump onto the carapace. The puddle gives you a visual marker so you don't have to guesstimate. It'll sometimes look like the tornadoes are coming at you, but they turn. Bismarc is actually a pretty decent fight for blm. With a little luck on phase 3 you can keep up perfect enochian uptime through the whole fight.

[Rikkustrife]

Attacking quickly? uhhh If by that you mean Weaponskill+Auto+Bloodletter ... And for most of the time it was just HS+AA.
Sometimes you got that lucky double proc.
In a 2.5 second period, you get exactly 1 weaponskill and 1 off global shot. Trying to stick two in takes longer than 2.5 seconds and slows down your stronger Weaponskills.
So no, In that same 2.5 second period, you are STILL only doing 2 attacks.

You could have more than one bloodletter in those 2.5 seconds, as well as blunt arrow, and misery's end
Having 2 attacks within 2.5 seconds happens often.

[Reinha]

Nope, Bard primary role is DPS, as shown by the DPS marker next to their name. Any Bard not optimizing DPS because "they don't have to" needs to be immediately kicked.

Yoshi-P disagrees with you. That wasn't my question though... Maybe I should have made my post shorter to get the point through loud and clear. Here, a condensed version:

I wonder if anyone of you complaining about someone not using WM would also complain about healers refusing to use their dps skills, or even go as far as kick such healers?

Just curious if people would treat healers the same or if they have a double standard.

[ScarecrowJames]

I plan to use it once I get it. I am currently leveling my BRD to 60 atm(or BLM not sure yet), but once I get it, I plan to use it a lot. The cast times are not that bad. Try playing a BLM if you think it's long.

its not about blms being longer or not, its about bards having that when they didnt.

Changing their gameplay they have played for several years.

[Malevicton]

Just curious if people would treat healers the same or if they have a double standard.

Stop trying to turn this into a "should healers have to dps" thread. There are too many of those as it is. If you wanna know what people think about that question, go read one of the bazillion threads dedicated to exactly that question. This one has enough distractions as it is.

[Verius_Nox]

its not about blms being longer or not, its about bards having that when they didnt.

Changing their gameplay they have played for several years.

BLM's have to now juggle 2 buffs with 3s casts, and if they mess up they do bad DPS for some time. You don't see a hundred threads on it because of their changed gameplay that they didn't have before.

Because MMO's change