Bard - they broke my job

[Reneo]

I understand but what would happen if they kept the job the same and nothing much really changed except for more support songs that decrease damage or deplete either your mana or tp? I mean would bards prefer to be that way?

I just don't know how they could get around without people either complaining about not doing enough damage or doing too much damage.

It's kinda the price of playing a mobile class that could dps and support you know?

[Reneo]

See? Not may people point out valid reasons as to why WM doesn't really mesh well with Bard, and you pointed it out. I understand your reasons but this misinformation that spreads through the community of the game just saddens and angers me.

It's not you that I have a problem with,the people that adapt, or the people who are genuinely upset about the playstyle. It's the comparison between people calling it caster/blm/bowmage that irks me.

[RiceisNice]

I understand but what would happen if they kept the job the same and nothing much really changed except for more support songs that decrease damage or deplete either your mana or tp? I mean would bards prefer to be that way?

I just don't know how they could get around without people either complaining about not doing enough damage or doing too much damage.

It's kinda the price of playing a mobile class that could dps and support you know?

They could've added new abilities that add onto their gameplay, or make up for their shortcomings, while at the same time increasing the overall skill cap so people can discern the good from the mediocre. Look at DRGs who got a buff that improves their jump damage and extends their combo to a 4th hit (abeit at a random positional so awareness is needed). SMNs get trance from using up their aetherflow stacks and new abilties that come with it, which also gives them more efficent bursts in both single target and AoE. MNKs get meditation and tornado kick to help minimize damage loss from absolute downtime (since they were the class that suffered the most from it due to GL3 stacks). So on and so fourth.

Heck I'd even be fine with WM' cast times if I could still weave my abilties or take advantage of BL resets, because thats how my class played in 2.0. Being required to stand still when possible adds a layer of player skill(?) to maximize their output. Because honestly, me (and probably other bards) didn't move around unnecessarily during raid content in 2.0 anyway. The cast times aren't the problem, it's what comes from the cast times. Heck you can't even repelling shot properly for extra dps without pausing because the game will still think you're moving if you try to cast after a repelling shot...

See? Not may people point out valid reasons as to why WM doesn't really mesh well with Bard, and you pointed it out. I understand your reasons but this misinformation that spreads through the community of the game just saddens and angers me.

It's not you that I have a problem with,the people that adapt, or the people who are genuinely upset about the playstyle. It's the comparison between people calling it caster/blm/bowmage that irks me.

It's a step in the right direction. Honestly, I'm tired of both sides repeating the same thing over and over. Whether its the loss of mobility (protip, its not, bards don't even move around that much unless they absolutely have to anyway), playing bad or not being able to adapt (not particularly the case if BRDs are still pulling reasonable numbers). MCH and BRD both play more-or-less the same because of the implementation of WM/GB , and the fact that their dps is balanced around it that not using it isn't an option (unless you're dicking around with friends or don't care for numbers). The difference could've been that bards need situational awareness to keep an eye on their resets, but cast times work against that very concept. Machinist does the same I guess you could say because of split short, but their split shot animation is so short that by the a time a proc does occur, you'd still have .25-5 seconds to react to it. It's not even BLM-SMN, both caster dps but play differently.

[Aiselia]

Then do it. No one cares that you refuse to adapt.

They are adapting, though.

Adaptation doesn't mean "Play something you don't like", after all. It simply means becoming adjusted to new conditions. And the new condition is: Play a caster if you want to play ranged.

So they're adapting by playing a caster.

And if nobody cared about the Bard not being fun for people, there wouldn't be all these threads. So you're inherently wrong.

[MrYaah]

1239 DPS Bard in A1

Didn't they break the Bard job? That guy just did 1239 DPS.

before the oppressors spawned the bard had already dropped to 1170 dps. Also the way they kept the oppressors together until they died is super op for the bards dps since he could hit both with his rain of death spam that resulted from having 4 dots up. Its a HUGE dps gain for bard in its current state. Also, using his dps as an example of why the class is in a good place is a faulty argument in my opinion, it does show that bard dps is decent which I don't dispute and I argue against it when the various forum idiots complain to that extent.

That being said, handling bloodletters in minuet is freaking trash right now Aikaal. The only reason bard dps is decent is because they buffed the damage to compensate for the shit rotation, theres no real hope of a decent consistent rotation on bard. It literally feels like your rotation is essentially damage control for your ogcds where you're constantly trying to best fix problems introduced by poorly timed bloodletter procs. Square enix can say get good all they want but it doesn't make them right.

[AnnietheCat]

The purpose of these threads isn't to force all bards everywhere to hate the changes. It really seems like the people telling us to suck it up believe that's the case. The point is to give a voice to all those who do not like WM. That's all. We're not telling you that you have to hate it. We're telling you that we hate it. And given that so many in these threads like the changes(obviously so, otherwise they wouldn't be calling for us to "adapt" *queue line from The Princess Bride*), what we should be doing with these threads is calling for square to introduce a way for us to have further freedom in our play style. You guys like it, we hate it, so we tell square we want a compromise. Everyone is repeating the same arguments for and against WM, so how about you see this as an opportunity for combat as a whole to grow?

[KaelDrakkal]

It's also frustrating to see people pointing to the fact that the developers say BRD is playing as intended as proof that it's a valid change in style and gameplay. FFXIV 1.0 was playing as designed and intended as well and we all know how that turned out.

[AnnietheCat]

FFXIV 1.0 was playing as designed and intended as well and we all know how that turned out.

I wasn't here for that, but valid point lol

[Aikaal]

Snip

Iunno. My problem is this thread itself Yaah. It's literally 80+ pages of tears. The amount of negativity is insane and it's a waste. I don't know if anyone made a suggestion thread if that BL issue is really that bad about possibilities to fix it and maybe someone did on this thread but its been flooded with QQ posts.

People mentioned to me and they are right, you don't know the job you haven't leveled it but I can't help that I can't take it seriously at all and I'm probably not the only outsider. On the Q&A for BLM Enochian, we had discussed on forums about ways for QoL changes and they're actually doing it. We had also complained that Thunder was disregarded because it's simply not good with the current rotation. Numbers were pointed out and they are doing something about it. I don't see that for Bards. If this job is really broken then prove it for your own sake because I can't identify a single thread on OF or anything that shows it.

The way I see it personally on my little BLM world is that Bard do slightly less damage than Machinists but they provide better support for progression. Warden's Paean arguably covers a lot in progression if you fail a mechanic and you have a nasty debuff. This prevent it right? That's probably the way SE is seeing it. If you only want a QoL change like BLM asked, Bards should probably make threads and offer suggestions or it will never happen.

[AnnietheCat]

Iunno. My problem is this thread itself Yaah. It's literally 80+ pages of tears. The amount of negativity is insane and it's a waste.

You would think if it's 80+ pages of people who have leveled bard saying they do not enjoy something(which is the majority of this topic), people who haven't leveled it would understand. But no, people who haven't leveled bard 51 levels only to have it completely change after that point are the ones being less than compassionate on this topic. We voice our opinions only to be met with opposition from people who do like it and people who have never even touched bard in the first place. There are many threads of people coming together and saying they dislike this play style and yet all we're hearing from fellow players is "qq harder" and "git gud". 80+ pages of us saying "we do not enjoy this", and all anyone is taking from that we're whining and just being difficult. This is a hobby, not a chore.