Bard and Wanderer's Minuet use it

[AnaviAnael]

Ya, I think we will never see eye to eye. and no point going in a circle about it. Respect is all in the eye of the beholder. Telling a bard to use a skill he does not want to do so it saves you some time is just silly. Even in raids, it is a group control thing, if the bard is holding the raid back, by all means kick him. I will still stand behind my statement not a person who uses the queue system has a right to tell others how to play.

I'm going to try something similar next time I do an 8 man on my WHM. I like to play DPS, so when I flag up in DF, I'm going to only DPS on my healer job. If people want to be selfish and tell me to keep the group alive, they'll have to deal with it. I'll play the job how I want to play the job.

It's all about MY playstyle and not maximizing the GROUP.

[UltimateAoe2]

I'm going to try something similar next time I do an 8 man on my WHM. I like to play DPS, so when I flag up in DF, I'm going to only DPS on my healer job. If people want to be selfish and tell me to keep the group alive, they'll have to deal with it. I'll play the job how I want to play the job.

It's all about MY playstyle and not maximizing the GROUP.

Okay, that's just way too far.

If someone refuses to not use WM in a dungeon, leave them be. Honestly, sick and tired of all the Bard crying, just leave them be and it'll sort itself out.
If someone refuses to not use WM in a RAID SETTING, then you have a problem.

Not playing your job correctly in a Raid setting is stupid.


just noticed you were just jk, excuse me. >_>;.

[JaydeDancer]

If your not going to use the song why roll the class anymore?

Exactly. I don't understand all the fuss about WM. I really like it and I don't think it is as much of an issue as people are making it out to be. BRD is a SUPPORT class. We SHOULD NOT be expected to do as much DPS as a MNK or DRG. WM improves our damage. If we use it by itself we get 30% increase in DMG and, yes, it takes away the auto attack. Big deal. Just use Barrage + Empyreal Arrow. I'm not a very high DPSing BRD and with that combo I will typically do almost 2700 DMG. Plus, even though we now have a cast timer, it only lasts for about a second and if you are hitting your attacks every 2.5 seconds, the cast timer doesn't make a difference. By the time you are done casting, your abilities are ready to be used again.

I do, however, agree with those of you who are saying there are times to use it and times to not use it. When you are in a boss fight where there are a ton of mechanics and dodging, it is probably best not to use it. UNLESS there is a 20 second space of time where the mechanics are gone and you can stand still long enough to cast WM then Barrage + Empyreal Arrow. I say 20 seconds because WM now has a recast of 15 secs so you are stuck with it on for at least that long if you put it on. It's not like Cleric Stance anymore, unfortunately.

[Ryans]

I won't use it, if groups kick me out for not doing it. I won't cry, or be upset. I will boycott any badly design changes to a class I like.

You people are so dramatic.

Personally, I would like animation locks back.

[Kaedan]

Rename the "cast bar" to "Precision Bar", "Aim Bar" or "Charge Bar", and there ya go.

What amuses me so is that the playstyle hasn't changed. In most fights, BRDs stand still unless they have to move due to ground AoE. Granted, you could continue to attack while moving from the ground AoE, but WM gives you the trade off that you do more damage. The trade off before was less damage because you could move and attack. WM just gives you the opposite choice now too.

[Nestama]

BRD doesn't play like BLM and people who think it does, don't play BLMs.

Quoted for damn truth. I main BLM (and I have my complaints towards Enochian and Blizzard IV) and after giving BRD a shot, it's... not even comparable to BLM in regards to cast time. BRD 'cast' times are incredibly short and allow you to dodge 'til the last second. BLM does not allow this (either you move just as the cast finishes so you cast and move, or you interrupt your spell. Unpopular choice is taking the AoE hit). Even with Wanderer's Minuet on, a BRD still has more mobility than a BLM with Ley Lines.

[Reinha]

There is a very similar debate on the healer forums that's been going on for ages. Should healers do dps when they have nothing to heal? Some say no, not if they don't like it because that's not what thy signed up for. Some say yes, to maximize group efficiency and to utilize the whole toolkit of the class. Now lets look at the argument used for the case of WM (not directed at you specifically Adire, just using your post as an example):

If you want to sabotage your group, maybe you should be the one to try and get a group who likes the idea on PF, because I guarantee you: More people will prefer a bard doing their best and using WM, or at least trying to use it correctly, over one who refuses to because they don't like it and sabotages the group.

If you're going into a dungeon thinking, "I don't like this skill so I'm not using it", you're in the wrong. Think for a moment how that would turn out if every player did this with every job. Please don't advocate intentional group sabotage, and please don't try to advocate censorship of people who have problems with this.

One little change and we get:

If you want to sabotage your group, maybe you should be the one to try and get a group who likes the idea on PF, because I guarantee you: More people will prefer a healer doing their best and using dps skills when there's nothing to heal, or at least trying to use them correctly, over one who refuses to because they don't like it and sabotages the group.

If you're going into a dungeon thinking, "I don't like this skill so I'm not using it", you're in the wrong. Think for a moment how that would turn out if every player did this with every job. Please don't advocate intentional group sabotage, and please don't try to advocate censorship of people who have problems with this.

Now you might say, it's a totally different thing because a bard is dps and a healer is a healer. According to Yoshi-P however, bard is actually support: "As for the machinist, its role is similar to that of the Bard that is, support for team members. So compared to a pure DPS as a monk or a ninja course DPS machinist will be lower because their roles are different."

You heard it. Bard's role is different from a pure dps, so requiring them to maximize their dps while supporting is the same thing as requiring a healer to maximize their dps while keeping everyone alive. I wonder if anyone of you complaining about someone not using WM would also complain about healers refusing to use their dps skills, or even go as far as kick such healers? Bear in mind, WM is a MUCH smaller increase than a healer going from 0 to max dps (whilst healing enough). Here's an example of scholar dps in Alexander: https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...cause_minions/

[Rikkustrife]

I don't see how bard having a lower cast time than black mage is relevant to anything at all
or how adding cast times makes a job harder, since it makes bard easier to play

[Lemuria]

Can we all stop dancing around the obvious here? Movement kills DPS with Wanderer's Minuet active. A Bard not using it gets their auto-attacks, which effectively makes up for the damage loss, full mobility AND has the benefit of having a larger window to use abilities inbetween skills.

Using abilities with Wanderer's Minuet on can actually slow down DPS. Since the best time to use abilities is in-between skills on most classes, you have a much smaller window for using them in Wanderer's Minuet. In many cases I find that using the skill tends to inch past the casting time since there's a small animation delay after using any ability before you can cast.

This doesn't occur without WM on because we have the full GCD as our abilities window.

If someone wants to actually run some proper numbers with Wanderer's Minuet versus non-Minuet combat, then maybe it'll kill the debate flat. And I mean an actual, impartial comparison. Not one heavily weighted to convince themselves that they're right. I'm not going to argue that Wanderer's Minuet isn't stronger when you're standing still, but in an actual combat situation I question it's validity.

[StrejdaTom]

I will start using WM when it starts being a DPS buff for me. Except aoe fights I do higher DPS without WM, even compared to other BRDs in same fight who use it. I dont know if you actually tried some real fight (ravana em.. alex 4?) with WM and without WM before making this post or you just think it is good skill because SE wont release something unuseful and untested (lol).