Bard and Wanderer's Minuet use it

[Rikkustrife]

The rotations of dragoons have changed a lot, but the class still plays similarly, it doesn't feel like a completely different class, and the additions were a logical addition to 2.0 dragoon.
Black mage seems the same.

I don't think punishing other players by doing less damage is the right answer, I'll be levelling bard to 60 because it will always be my main but will be doing the harder content as scholar.

The best thing to do is to voice your opinion on the forums, as annoying as it can be to see .
Don't be rude to others on the forums either, even though it can be tempting with some of the things they say which shows they are not even trying to understand the issue.
Keep voicing your opinion to let S-E how serious of an issue this is

[Welsper59]

WM is terrible... like REALLY terrible to play with while you level, at least for the first half. When you hit 56, and you're appropriately geared, that's when it starts to become a little better and can keep up with no WM. At 58 or 59, that's when you start to feel a little stronger, but again, negligible amounts. When you hit 60 and get Sidewinder, that's when you should be using WM.

It was fun while it lasted to be mobile, as we were for the last almost 2 years of ARR, but that's how it goes right now. Hitting 60 is basically a Coming of Age sort of ordeal, where you are no longer seen as such. There's an expectation for you to be a turret at 60, just as a Coming of Age event would see you as an adult from then on. It's disappointing, to say the least lol. Might as well just pick up another DPS class or something. The necessity is non-existent for songs until Savage, which I'm not gonna be doing anywhere in the near future.

It sort of reminds me of playing FFXI. Many of us that did endgame would level jobs based on necessity. Do we need more BLM? Time to level up that job. Do we need a BRD? Almost always, since it was one of the least represented jobs for the majority of the games life, just because the REAL support role wasn't attractive to most people. The appeal of fast party invites and the fact you were actually uniquely useful in almost every occasion made me main it. BRD feels like its gone the opposite way, where the job is only truly useful in specific uncommon situations. You can always use it, but for nearly every occasion, your job is just potentially subpar. Not always true, but it just feels that way right now. I mean, it's a job that fills up a DPS role, yet doesn't really feel fun for many people. Not everyone obviously. The whole ordeal just made me wish we had a full support role or traditional support BRD... that woulda been nice. Don't give a **** about damage output if there were such a role.

[Jadedsins]

.k

My husband point was pretty clear.

From both of the FF MMOs. The Community has always had a problem with Elitism. They would not invite classes that were consider weak. Both Him and I find it laughable, that people would talk about griefing the community, when players have been doing it for years. As the saying goes, A few bad apples right?

You or anyone else don't have a right to tell other people how to play his or her class. Every time that you queue up to a dungeon, you accept the fact that people will play how they want of all skill levels. You don't have a right to say what they can and can't do. You don't even have a right to argue with them.

If you want the rights of a "good" group. Make your own, add your own rules.I would never argue with you on that line. It is your group your rules. This community is so sad at times that even for story line groups, My husband was kicked out of groups right at the start when HS first came out.

[Adire]

You're completely missing the whole point.
As a WM hater, I don't care about the numbers. I just can't stand the gameplay change.
Those who care about dps are those rangers that actually don't mind how WM works, except for the little damage it adds over time.

Turn it on for your big attacks/buffs, turn it off afterwards if you want to or need mobility? Stand still with it on like you should be doing already when mobility isn't needed maybe?

Just about every job has had some degree of change to its playstyle:

- Paladins now have more offensive capability than just turn on sword oath and spam the same old combo.

- Ninjas now have weaponskill positionals.

- Monks now have things to do during downtime.

- Dragoons now have RNG to deal with and party buffs.

- Scholars now have a powerful AoE heal.

- White Mages now have weaker stoneskin.

- Summoners now have Bahamut.

- Black mages now have a "base of operations" to stay in as much as possible.

While WM may arguably be the biggest change of these, think about it for a moment.

Bard has been largely agreed on by the community to be one of most simple jobs to play, and the most forgiving for mechanics. WM requires a little thinking to maximize its effectiveness. It's bard's ONE difficulty now. Knowing when and when not to use WM. And it's able to be turned off and on.

Casters do not get this option and melees are still melees, so you still are the most mechanics resistant job, and still are the most mobile. So your playstyle overall is not that changed. And last I had heard, WM was not meant to be on 24/7. It's firstly meant for burst damage during buff/skill uptime and secondly meant for times when mobility is not needed. The challenge is to know when it's best to have it on, or off.

In short: Stand still with it on for a little bit for big damage, run around with it off when you need to dodge. You get bonus damage for standing still when you don't have to move when before you did not. People need to stop overreacting.

So you can actively sabotage your DPS if you like, but you can't honestly expect to get off for free and output competitive dps and not have to adapt to something new.

I find it utterly hilarious to see people that don't even have Archer to 60 (or leveled at all for that matter) jumping on the bandwagon asking for a playstyle to be restored that NEVER existed. If you were (or still are) running around in a fight for no good reason, that's on you, but it was never a mechanic of Bard, EVER. People need to stop acting like it was, because that is just false. We did not lose a single iota of mobility.

This guy gets it. Don't know about you other people, but when I play bard, I only move when I have to move. I like the idea of having bonus damage now when not moving.

[Fantasy9]

I find it utterly hilarious to see people that don't even have Archer to 60 (or leveled at all for that matter) jumping on the bandwagon...We did not lose a single iota of mobility.

If you didn't lose mobility with WM on then you don't use it. In some of the expert dungeons I only have it on at the beginning of a boss fight to pop all my buffs+Barrage+empyreal arrow+windbite+bloodletter+Venomous+Sidewinder. In that order and then I turn it off so that I can keep up dmg while dodging everything. If dmg was better then it would be fine to keep it on but unlike BLM, BRDs don't do even half the dmg they do with one spell. As I said in another thread, my lvl 50 BLM did 2x-3x the dmg of my lvl 58 BRD(now 60). HS w/WM on was 565dmg and fire 1 w/astral 3 was 1k-1.2k and fire 3 was ~1.5k. Even Empyreal Arrow now at Ilvl 154 does only 850-1k and that is a 220potency.

[Malevicton]

You or anyone else don't have a right to tell other people how to play his or her class. Every time that you queue up to a dungeon, you accept the fact that people will play how they want of all skill levels. You don't have a right to say what they can and can't do. You don't even have a right to argue with them.

Umm. Excuse me? I absolutely have that right. And what you're talking about isn't "skill level" it's intentionally playing subpar. I can deal with low skill level.

I actually have all of those rights. You have the right to ignore me, but I totally have the right to say "You need to use WM."

[Jadedsins]

Umm. Excuse me? I absolutely have that right. And what you're talking about isn't "skill level" it's intentionally playing subpar. I can deal with low skill level.

I actually have all of those rights. You have the right to ignore me, but I totally have the right to say "You need to use WM."

No you don't, If you can get the group to agree with you and kick them. That is fine, You have no right to tell others how to play when you queue for a dungeon or raid. You pick ease of access, at the cost of not being able to pick the rules for that group.

[Oscura]

Why is it always Bards?

[Adire]

No you don't, If you can get the group to agree with you and kick them. That is fine, You have no right to tell others how to play when you queue for a dungeon or raid. You pick ease of access, at the cost of not being able to pick the rules for that group.

Dungeons involve teamwork. Teamwork involves discussing how to best accomplish a goal. A team member telling another team member to stop when they are intentionally sabotaging their DPS, therefore hurting the team as a whole, is perfectly reasonable.

I don't care what your playstyle is. Outright refusing to use WM's raw damage increase when all buffs/skills are up or when you don't need to move a lot just because you don't like the skill is self sabotage and team sabotage.

[Malevicton]

No you don't, If you can get the group to agree with you and kick them. That is fine, You have no right to tell others how to play when you queue for a dungeon or raid. You pick ease of access, at the cost of not being able to pick the rules for that group.

Y'know, I don't like the animations for fire spells anymore. I'm just gonna cast blizzard3 from now on. I know it's terrible, and that my team will never think it's okay for me to behave that way, but it's more fun to me. And neither you nor anyone else has the right to even argue with me about it. Because you chose ease of access, which means literally anything I do that's not explicitly covered by ToS is completely immune to criticism.