Why can't DRGs do their positionals? Live Letter Answer lol

[Powercow]

Assuming both DRG and MNK miss all of their positionals in a single rotation cycle, DRG loses more damage by a significant margin.

Legit question (and any dragoon can go ahead and answer this): what is a "single rotation cycle" to you? Like, please list out the rotation's ability names so I can get a better grasp on what's happening. My dragoon is only 53 atm so I don't have the full picture with the new skills.

[Charisma]

If you suck! Yeah, I'll admit, it's a PITA sometimes but ya know what, too bad. And your main is DRG! If you can't hack the job, go find an easymode job and play that. Some of us, actually like to have a challenge in game. If I wanted things handed to me, I'd go beg on the streets. But because you can't adapt don't take your lack of skill and ask SE to change the game for you. As Yoshi implied, practice. Get good.

Lol? You totally miss his point there.. maybe you shouldnt browse a forum full of casuals, with your almighty leet skills.

And since when do positional requirements on skills make a challenge? Its just a stupid and annoying game design by SE, ruining all the melee classes with the same stupid crap.

[Themis]

Legit question (and any dragoon can go ahead and answer this): what is a "single rotation cycle" to you? Like, please list out the rotation's ability names so I can get a better grasp on what's happening. My dragoon is only 53 atm so I don't have the full picture with the new skills.

Basically, once you get both of the new positional skills, it is random which of the 2 will proc when you use either Chaos Thrust or Full Thrust. One requires flank the other requires back to hit full potency (290 vs 100 if wrong position). Because you can't tell which skill you have to use, you also don't know what position you need to move to ahead of time.

So the adjustment is to reduce the potency loss from getting it wrong. This also has another reason: in some content, you are unable to hit the right positional. This means that, due to the battle design, you cannot hit for full potency at all. This means you have to suffer a 190 potency loss for no reason other than "game said so". But, at the same time, you don't want to forgo battle mechanics/design simply to cater to all jobs or they'd be very dull fights. It's about balancing between the two things.

[Belhi]

Legit question (and any dragoon can go ahead and answer this): what is a "single rotation cycle" to you? Like, please list out the rotation's ability names so I can get a better grasp on what's happening. My dragoon is only 53 atm so I don't have the full picture with the new skills.

To summarise, basically what happens is DRG get an ability called Blood of the Dragon which, when active, gives a 30% buff to Jump and Spineshatter, which last 15 seconds. In addition, while Blood of the Dragon is active True Thrust and Chaos Thrust will activate a fourth skill in the combo. However the Skill activated is randomly chosen between two abilities.

Mechanically they are identical except Fang and Claw requires you to attack from the flank to receive full potency and Wheeling Thrust requires you to attack from the rear. Both skills hit for 290 when positioned right and 100 when positioned wrong and both add 15 seconds to Blood of the Dragon's up time.

The goal to maximise DPS is to have Blood of the Dragon up constantly, both to access the 290 hits and to use Geirskogul, the level 60 ability that hits for 200 potency in a forward cone and removes 10 seconds from Blood of the Dragon's remaining time. If Blood of the Dragon drops off you suffer quite a high dps loss obviously.

Fang and Claw and Wheeling Thrust are literally a fourth step on the pre existing combos. They must be done next after whichever third step procs them.

[Powercow]

I got all that stuff, I was more curious what like, the actual definition of a "single cycle" is. I understand going from 290->100 potency is a pretty significant loss (about 65% lost potency) but I was interested in seeing what a full rotation looked like (say, around 30 seconds.)

As far as I can tell it's something like
HT - Phleb - ID - Disembowel - Chaos Thrust - (new skill) - True - Vorpal - Full - (new skill) or something, right?

[Divine_Intervention]

Da hell. You have to MOVE? how DARE THEY!
Boss come to me on my bench in Mhor Donna and allow me to prod you repeatedly with my lance whilst i eat sammich with other hand please.

Suck it up guys.

edit- not aimed at all dragoons. you know who you are xD

[JungoBungo]

I'm fine with positionals, my issue is just having to do more work for the exact same reward.

It's not that it's a huge issue, because following positional requirements is still pretty damn easy. But it just makes absolutely no sense to me to have two skills that effectively do the same thing. Why isn't there some difference between Fang and Claw and Wheeling Thrust save their positional requirement? I'd take someone else's advice in this thread and remove the RNG aspect by making one proc after full thrust combo and one after disembowel combo, and then add some sort of buff or debuff to both of them. It can even be extremely minor. Just give me a reason for both of them to exist.

Don't get me wrong though, people who don't bother to do them...are just terrible.

[Powercow]

As far as I can tell it's something like
HT - Phleb - ID - Disembowel - Chaos Thrust - (new skill) - True - Vorpal - Full - (new skill) or something, right?

In addition to this, how often does one use Geirskogul over say 2 minutes?

I'm doing a bit of math on my end (just some basic number crunching) and I wanted to get a feel for how much of their total damage comes from positionals, and knowing this would be quite handy.

[Jonnycbad]

90% of the ppl here are not getting the simple fact that:

Dragoons goes from being 100% proc at level 56 to 50/50 proc at level 58. Learning the level 58 ability does not enhance drg in any way, it's the same potency as the level 56 skill. The only difference between a 56drg and a 58drg is the proc goes from 100% to 50/50 random proc. Wheeling Thrust, and Fang&Claw are learned 2 levels apart and have thr exact damage damage. If both were learned at the same level, it wouldnt be so bad. But it feels like Wheeling Thrust, which is learned at 58 only complicates DRG with no added benefit.

[Craiger]

DRGs have to know the fights perfectly, and use Geirskogul accordingly to maximize their DPS. They have literally around 1 second or less or margin for error if using their maximum potential rotation.
DRGs have some pretty challenging mechanics for raids in other words, but are players complaining about this being too hard? no... They complain about some damn positionals...

Sorry if I'm being rude, but have the majority of DRGs just not bothered with the positionals they had in 2.X? and are players not even trying to use Geirskogul the right way? It just seems like some here don't even know where the hit boxes are for Flank/Back, and the fact that nobody is complaining about the real difficulty with the new DRG worries me...

IMO DRG works perfectly right now, and the only thing I would maybe want them them to change (which this change Yoshi-P was talking about could very well be), would be to increase the base potency for Wheeling/Fang when missing the positional. Not to make it easier for players who don't give a damn about moving, but for the mechanics that just doesn't allow for you to hit those positionals. I main MNK, and there are plenty of fights in previous raids where you have to stand behind or at flank at times, making it impossible to hit the right side. In those situations, DRG have a bigger loss in DPS with that massive 190 potency loss from Wheeling/Fang.

Otherwise it's all fine. Quickly identifying if you get Wheeling/Fang is not hard at all, and you have a ton of time to move. If you still have problems with moving to the right position, and need to prepare before moving for those positionals... Then I suggest you read/watch up on how those hit boxes work, cause we're talking about 1-2 steps of moving.

90% of the ppl here are not getting the simple fact that:

Dragoons goes from being 100% proc at level 56 to 50/50 proc at level 58. Learning the level 58 ability does not enhance drg in any way, it's the same potency as the level 56 skill. The only difference between a 56drg and a 58drg is the proc goes from 100% to 50/50 random proc. Wheeling Thrust, and Fang&Claw are learned 2 levels apart and have thr exact damage damage. If both were learned at the same level, it wouldnt be so bad. But it feels like Wheeling Thrust, which is learned at 58 only complicates DRG with no added benefit.

So if you had gotten them at the same level, nobody would complain? I don't think so... don't think that many players really cares about that, because they're 60 anyways