PLEASE Learn from your mistakes......

[Azurymber]

Liar. If you are going to post a negative (if slightly childish) rant, at least own it. As it is, they are communicating fine. Sometimes, all one can give is a vague statement. As for rushing stuff out, if that were the case, we would have already had 1.19 out with multiple bugs. They aren't in a position to hold back material for too long, and are in a bit of a catch 22.

If they communicated properly there wouldn't be rage threads every day and there wouldn't be massive amounts of speculation. Other games do -not- experience this anywhere near the amount that FFXIV does. It results in a forum with almost no positive threads.

It doesn't take a year to reform an attribute and battle system. It shouldn't even take 2 months. It's a collection of variable and simple formulas and should be easy to tweak and adjust. If you look at posts from 4 months ago every white knight was arguing that 1.18 would fix the "core battle mechanics" problem and they would be able to release patches much faster after. As it stands the "core battle mechanics" won't be stable until after 1.20 which going by the 2-months between patches history will be november or december.

Edit: and the fact that people consider common sense to be childish or negative is just an example of the blindness of white knights.
Not pissing off your players every week with dooms-day speculation should be common sense
Not changing the entire core system of a game and breaking parts of it every patch should be common sense.

[DoctorMog]

[Removed by Moderator according to the FINAL FANTASY XIV FORUM Guidelines.]

Damn, guess I didnt get in before

"typical sarcastic response of forum trolls that don't actually play but think they know whats best for the game."

You win this round sir.

[SniperRifle]

Damn, guess I didnt get in before

"typical sarcastic response of forum trolls that don't actually play but think they know whats best for the game."

You win this round sir.

Idk how you do it Mog, but you manage to impress me on a consistent basis. It's like we see eye to eye but you can project what I'm thinking better then I can myself.

[Sonic_the_Hedgehog]

If they communicated properly there wouldn't be rage threads every day and there wouldn't be massive amounts of speculation. Other games do -not- experience this anywhere near the amount that FFXIV does. It results in a forum with almost no positive threads.

It doesn't take a year to reform an attribute and battle system. It shouldn't even take 2 months. It's a collection of variable and simple formulas and should be easy to tweak and adjust. If you look at posts from 4 months ago every white knight was arguing that 1.18 would fix the "core battle mechanics" problem and they would be able to release patches much faster after. As it stands the "core battle mechanics" won't be stable until after 1.20 which going by the 2-months between patches history will be november or december.

Edit: and the fact that people consider common sense to be childish or negative is just an example of the blindness of white knights.
Not pissing off your players every week with dooms-day speculation should be common sense
Not changing the entire core system of a game and breaking parts of it every patch should be common sense.

I'm seriously upset that my previous comment to this was deleted and I was only telling the truth. I'll say it again, but without the f-word, which was censored btw. I'll like how calling someone out on their bullcrap is offensive to SE.

"You're such a hypocrite, first you say don't rush the game, next you're complaining that the patches are taking too long to come out. You can't have it both ways."

[Azurymber]

I'm seriously upset that my previous comment to this was deleted and I was only telling the truth. I'll say it again, but without the f-word, which was censored btw. I'll like how calling someone out on their bullcrap is offensive to SE.

"You're such a hypocrite, first you say don't rush the game, next you're complaining that the patches are taking too long to come out. You can't have it both ways."

umm if you read what i posted i did not say that in any way.
I said they shouldn't just rush things out for the purpose of having something done if they will change it again next patch
And I said they should have been able to fix the battle system within a month.
Theres no point in wasting time on content when it changes 2months later. Fix the core first, then fix the game.
Instead they said they are fixing the core (and you can't tell me tweaking battle algorithms take half a year) and instead spent tons of time on things like raids which will be completely different once battle algorithms are changed.

Kinda like if you build a building, you do the foundation fist, then the basement, and build up from there. You dont put together the top floor first then try to sneak under it and build the foundation and basement.... get what im saying?

[ViolentDjango]

If they communicated properly there wouldn't be rage threads every day and there wouldn't be massive amounts of speculation. Other games do -not- experience this anywhere near the amount that FFXIV does. It results in a forum with almost no positive threads.

It doesn't take a year to reform an attribute and battle system. It shouldn't even take 2 months. It's a collection of variable and simple formulas and should be easy to tweak and adjust. If you look at posts from 4 months ago every white knight was arguing that 1.18 would fix the "core battle mechanics" problem and they would be able to release patches much faster after. As it stands the "core battle mechanics" won't be stable until after 1.20 which going by the 2-months between patches history will be november or december.

Edit: and the fact that people consider common sense to be childish or negative is just an example of the blindness of white knights.
Not pissing off your players every week with dooms-day speculation should be common sense
Not changing the entire core system of a game and breaking parts of it every patch should be common sense.

Lol... What "other games" are you talking about? Because in my experience, just about any game with regular updates deals with this... People speculate, even when they know exactly what's coming. Unless SE gives line-by-line explanations of the code in the game, they'll be something people spend hours wondering about.

Its just part of the human condition, and there's nothing wrong with it, especially when the Development Team is actually looking into people's opinions and ideas for insight into things they can work on.

Edit: and the fact that people consider common sense to be childish or negative is just an example of the blindness of white knights.
Not pissing off your players every week with dooms-day speculation should be common sense
Not changing the entire core system of a game and breaking parts of it every patch should be common sense.

Presentation counts for a lot. Your point could be as factual as "air exists", but if you present it childishly, people will always call you on that. Retreating to rebuttals about how people are "white knights" doesn't help you get taken any more seriously, and the defensive insults definitely don't help drive your point home.

Frankly I disagree with most of what you said. They are working hard and making considerable progress with improving the game. We already have an ETA for when they want to be ready to relaunch, and we have a relatively detailed map of what they plan to do. I don't think we can really ask for more within reason. And its not "White Knight"-ism to say that giving them time to do work and make progress is reasonable. Its hard enough to program and design a game -- its even harder to design and adjust one that was built with lack of foresight.

Its not like we're paying for anything, or like we will be paying before the game relaunches -- so I don't feel there's a reason to rush any of it.

[Azurymber]

Lol... What "other games" are you talking about? Because in my experience, just about any game with regular updates deals with this... People speculate, even when they know exactly what's coming. Unless SE gives line-by-line explanations of the code in the game, they'll be something people spend hours wondering about.

Its just part of the human condition, and there's nothing wrong with it, especially when the Development Team is actually looking into people's opinions and ideas for insight into things they can work on.



Presentation counts for a lot. Your point could be as factual as "air exists", but if you present it childishly, people will always call you on that. Retreating to rebuttals about how people are "white knights" doesn't help you get taken any more seriously, and the defensive insults definitely don't help drive your point home.

Frankly I disagree with most of what you said. They are working hard and making considerable progress with improving the game. We already have an ETA for when they want to be ready to relaunch, and we have a relatively detailed map of what they plan to do. I don't think we can really ask for more within reason. And its not "White Knight"-ism to say that giving them time to do work and make progress is reasonable. Its hard enough to program and design a game -- its even harder to design and adjust one that was built with lack of foresight.

Its not like we're paying for anything, or like we will be paying before the game relaunches -- so I don't feel there's a reason to rush any of it.

when i played Hello Kitty Online when it was with aeria games (and i was a gamesage on it) the game sucked. It was broken and mobs were like impossible to kill even in the first area and everyone knew it. But everyone still had fun. There weren't many complaint threads and most people focused on community and fun events (some of which i held). It was a -very- different environment and the community was like 90% 25-30 yr olds.

Star Wars TOR boards right now seem a lot less trollish and complainy than here.

And while XI had complaint threads, there weren't nearly as many, because they never really told anyone what was in a patch till it was out

Perfect World (which essentially suck) also has/had way less complaint threads than here

i dont believe EVE online has a lot of complaint threads

And since when do we have an ETA for relaunch? Isn't that speculation -right there-? link to where the ETA is?

[ViolentDjango]

when i played Hello Kitty Online when it was with aeria games (and i was a gamesage on it) the game sucked. It was broken and mobs were like impossible to kill even in the first area and everyone knew it. But everyone still had fun. There weren't many complaint threads and most people focused on community and fun events (some of which i held). It was a -very- different environment and the community was like 90% 25-30 yr olds.

Star Wars TOR boards right now seem a lot less trollish and complainy than here.

And while XI had complaint threads, there weren't nearly as many, because they never really told anyone what was in a patch till it was out

Perfect World (which essentially suck) also has/had way less complaint threads than here

i dont believe EVE online has a lot of complaint threads

And since when do we have an ETA for relaunch? Isn't that speculation -right there-? link to where the ETA is?

They've expressed that they have loose expectations on when the release will be, which is sometime next year. Its speculation to try and claim a specific quarter, but its been clear for a while that their ultimate goal is releasing the PS3 version (which is ready to go) before the end of next year, if not earlier.

/sigh/

The community of a completely broken game run by a company that doesn't care enough to balance the primary functions of the game is NOT good indication of a good community. And how can you assess the age range of the ENTIRE community of the game? Final Fantasy is a 24 year old series -- One can easily assume that most of its core fanbase had to have been old enough to appreciate its better games (3~7, which is debatable but beside the point), meaning meaning that 25~30 age range is probably applicable here as well.

Star Wars TOR hasn't come out yet. So you can't talk about how its community is amazing when most of them don't even have access to the game yet. Wait until a couple of months after they've gotten used to/tired of the baseline content and then come back.

Final Fantasy XI-era SE gave us LESS information. So bringing up that community by saying it is better is contradictory to your entire argument. Apparently, to appease you and create a dream community, they should tell us absolutely nothing (which I assume is why the first community you listed was so "good" -- I can't imagine a broken game having very much information flowing from the Developers -- especially when starting areas were overpowered and impossible to fight in.

EVE is a game you can play without touching your computer for a week, and the lengthy and exhausting requirements for becoming a top tier "player" off it lends itself to a style of gameplay only hardcore enthusiasts can really enjoy for extended periods of time. Hardcore games tend to have less complainers as the grassroots communities tend to drive away "whiners" who are new to the game before they've rooted themselves enough to want to stick around. Its a common thing among gaming communities, though its more common in competitive ones (which is why many more hardcore gaming communities experience very slow flow of new players in high tier play) -- and its something I see constantly as founder of a company that deals primarily with competitive gaming. This point doubles up when you consider that Final Fantasy XI was significantly more hardcore when compared to say, World of Warcraft, which has a notoriously "bad" community. Final Fantasy XIV is purposefully more casual, and casual communities have much larger low-ends; i.e. less grind-it-out style hardcore gamers.

And that's not necessarily a bad thing; it's not something to chastise the community for. Its the nature of people and the way they respond to scenarios. Negativity, like positiveness, has its goods and its bad. Just like you say people who are overtly in-favor of SE's approach are "white knights" and blind to their fallacies, those complainers you bark about are representative of the kind of players who will be integral in helping the game become more successful. This game has problems, and until there are more people willing to support it than there are condemning it (i.e. when there's something to fight for), there are going to be LOTS of complaining threads.

And that's a good thing.

It means, at the very least, those people care enough to express their opinions and voice their concerns about how the game could potentially be better. They may not always be right, and SE definitely won't always go with their point of voice -- but a forum full of thousands of people who, despite how badly the game has done thus far, are willing to stick around to play, give feedback, and brainstorm improvement ideas to help the game become better and more enjoyable for everyone is the definition of a good community.