Bard - they broke my job

[Johaan]

Gotta say, from reading all this crying and saltiness, seems like some brds want to the same or pretty much close to other pure DPS jobs + party wide buffs + mobility (still the most mobile class in game, you just have to stance dance now) is asking to be OP as hell. Have to have some trade offs somewhere, or people will only take BRDs in heavy AOE fights where melees have to stop DPSing constantly. reminds me of the early 2.xx days lol

A12. Bards can attack while moving, therefore they have advantage over handling mechanics as well as the ability to support party members. Our image of bards from the development side is that by making them stationary in 3.0, they are now able to increase their DPS. However, we made adjustments so bards will be able to switch between their stances easier. This doesn’t mean that they won’t be able to deal damage while moving, and bards will understand when to switch between stances once they get used to the content, as well as experiment how they can output more DPS changing between stances.

might actually play BRD or MCH now since the stance dancing adds a whole new layer on how jobs play.

[Snugglebutt]

...might actually play BRD or MCH now since the stance dancing adds a whole new layer on how jobs play.

Do it then come back to this thread and see if feel the same. Practical knowledge/experience might give you a different perspective instead of an outsider looking in through tinted glass and leaving snide comments or mere assumptions.

[Aiselia]

party wide buffs

Actually, if it meant I could do more DPS during the times where songs aren't needed, I'd gladly give up "Party-wide" buffs in an instant.

I've said it before and I guess I have to say it again, "party-wide" means nothing. Your melee/tanks will not need MP. Your casters won't either if they're played right. Your healers might, although less likely if people don't keep dying and draining MP on revives.

So let's say I'm doing a 4-person dungeon with a warrior, white mage, dragoon, and bard. In that case, what does it matter if my ballad affects 4 people or 1?

Let's say I'm in a raid with a WAR, PLD, WHM, SCH, BRD, MNK, BLM, and DRG. Why does it matter if my song affects the entire party if only 2 people are even possibly going to benefit from it and the other 6 won't?

[Johaan]

Actually, if it meant I could do more DPS during the times where songs aren't needed, I'd gladly give up "Party-wide" buffs in an instant.

I've said it before and I guess I have to say it again, "party-wide" means nothing. Your melee/tanks will not need MP. Your casters won't either if they're played right. Your healers might, although less likely if people don't keep dying and draining MP on revives.

So let's say I'm doing a 4-person dungeon with a warrior, white mage, dragoon, and bard. In that case, what does it matter if my ballad affects 4 people or 1?

Let's say I'm in a raid with a WAR, PLD, WHM, SCH, BRD, MNK, BLM, and DRG. Why does it matter if my song affects the entire party if only 2 people are even possibly going to benefit from it and the other 6 won't?

Really... Lets not go to deep into word play now.... brd is still a party supporter with their songs, in a perfect world where people play their roles to 100% of their ability, you "might" have a point, but shit happens, people make mistakes, take extra dmg, die. especially in a progression raid parties.

Have a ninja in your party to goad people? great play some foes for your casters, shit hits the fan and healers need MP? switch to ballad, no ninja and tanks need TP or meeles died and are TP starved? Peon it is. its all about class synergy and balance. which some people have trouble looking at.

wouldn't use 4 man dungeons to gauge a jobs performance.

[Arrik]

wouldn't use 4 man dungeons to gauge a jobs performance.

Actually, if it meant I could do more DPS during the times where songs aren't needed, I'd gladly give up "Party-wide" buffs in an instant.

I've said it before and I guess I have to say it again, "party-wide" means nothing. Your melee/tanks will not need MP. Your casters won't either if they're played right. Your healers might, although less likely if people don't keep dying and draining MP on revives.

So let's say I'm doing a 4-person dungeon with a warrior, white mage, dragoon, and bard. In that case, what does it matter if my ballad affects 4 people or 1?

Let's say I'm in a raid with a WAR, PLD, WHM, SCH, BRD, MNK, BLM, and DRG. Why does it matter if my song affects the entire party if only 2 people are even possibly going to benefit from it and the other 6 won't?

Reading comprehension, yo.

Edit: The point is, we have party wide buffs that never affect the whole pt, and yet people seem to think they are some grand thing. Also, Battle Litany says hi. Also, before you chime in "Battle Litany isn't up as long as you have MP," Battle Litany is balanced around recast, ours around MP. Ours shouldn't be MP, 15% damage, and a 10% WD decrease.

[Aiselia]

wouldn't use 4 man dungeons to gauge a jobs performance.

Yeah, lots of people like to ignore them despite the fact that they're the majority of the game and raiding is a minority.

Doesn't change the fact that it doesn't matter if the spells are single target or party-wide. If it meant I'd be able to do better DPS for the 95% of the time where I'm not playing songs, I'd gladly have my songs become single target.

[Duelle]

Let brds parse the same... that's fine. This game will turn into ffbard.

Implement boss fights with mechanics that punish ranged while favoring melee. There, I fixed the problem.

might actually play BRD or MCH now since the stance dancing adds a whole new layer on how jobs play.

Waiting 15 seconds to switch a stance off is NOT stance dancing. Stance dancing would be switching to a stance, use the ability relevant to that stance, then switching back. Activating WM gets you stuck in that stance for 15 seconds.

Absolutely don't understand, why they changed a class that exists like this for 2 years by now. Should have only brought MCN with cast time, since its a new class. So people could choose between ranged with/out cast time.

If the change weren't as forced, I think more people would have been able to adjust to it. Sure, design MCH around more cast times (really, why didn't they do this?). If you're hellbent of giving BRD casts, give Bloodletter and Windbite cast times and leave Heavy Shot, Straight Shot, Venomous Bite and Misery's End as is. That way you have 4 skills instant, 4 skills with casts (Bloodletter, Windbite, Empyreal Arrow and Sidewinder), keep auto attacks and some mobility (assuming you were to give BL a cast, this would mean to use BL procs the BRD would have to stand still).