This new bard play style blows.

[LambLich]

It depends on the design of the job if it is an actual design flaw. What do you perceive the Bard job to be? Primarily DPS or Primarily Support?

In all honesty, I perceive Bard and Mechanist primarily Support jobs with DPS mixed in. With that viewpoint, I can see the design being just fine. However, looking at it as a primary DPS, it would be a design flaw.

In all honesty, the "support" thing is a problem, its stupidly hard to balance unless it has its own defined role in a party. Trying make a dps with some support abilities tacked on usually ends in one of two ways either stupid overpowered or weak as hell.

[DreameR7g]

Snip

Actually, that's the perception of the community. That's also actually why Bard was put under the DPS role. They wanted to spread out the support abilities instead of having their own job role because hardly anyone wants to play a job with nothing but support abilities. From what I've seen, Support is a dirty word among communities. A good chunk of people rather to be doing damage because they get the pleasure of "BIG NUMBERS!" It isn't typically hard to balance in its own right. It IS hard to put support abilities in games where the community shuns it, even though support abilities can actually help maximize a party's effective power.

At the end of the day, that isn't a balance problem. It's a perception problem.

[ThanMazus]

I love all of the "Ugh so many people talking about this, just stop talking about it!" posts. If that many people are upset, maybe there's an issue? Even if people posted all of their complaints about bard in one thread, we'd still have a dozen different "Show your vanity: <race goes here>", "Here is my dissertation on why the new savage alexander which isn't released yet will be too hard/easy", "I'm a tank and I have a lot of bad things to say about DPS players" threads on the front page.

[Wavaryen]

It depends on the design of the job if it is an actual design flaw. What do you perceive the Bard job to be? Primarily DPS or Primarily Support?

In all honesty, I perceive Bard and Mechanist primarily Support jobs with DPS mixed in. With that viewpoint, I can see the design being just fine. However, looking at it as a primary DPS, it would be a design flaw.

I can see your point, but I feel that the tool kit we have as a support job is not enough. We lack options outside of raiding, and if it really is primarily support. We need songs that support such mindset. Songs that can make melee stronger, songs that can give resist with the toughest of fights. Choices to be made with our mana. Would that not be a better support than what we have now?

[DreameR7g]

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Well you have options outside of raiding. They are just specific. TP song for those like me: Melee DPS. That actually can be a huge help. Mage Ballad is self explanatory and Foe's Requiem is also self explanatory.

While the options you've listed would make you a better support, it isn't all that you do, of course. Being a Support/DPS in the manner I perceive explains why Bard has what they have pretty well, I believe. It's also why I believe Bard was listed under DPS: To have a Support hybrid, while still labeled under the holy trinity of Tank, DPS and Healer so it won't be so wildly avoided as a job labeled "Support" is. Heavensward's addition to your support firepower also supports my theory with Wanderer's Minuet being a good example, giving you a stance so you can have focus fire power to strengthen your pure DPS at the cost of mobility/support capabilities.

[Wavaryen]

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Ya, but outside of raiding I hardly ever need to use the tp song, I even ask do they need it. Nope.

and I guess I am strange, as a BLM was like..wow you really use foe? He was happy until he pulled aggro lol.

Even MP song outside of raiding hardly gets used. I don't feel like a support dps during that time I am not raiding
. I feel like a gimp mage.

[DreameR7g]

Ya, but outside of raiding I hardly ever need to use the tp song, I even ask do they need it. Nope.

and I guess I am strange, as a BLM was like..wow you really use foe? He was happy until he pulled aggro lol.

Even MP song I outside of raiding hardly gets used. I don't feel like a support dps during that time. I feel like a gimp mage.

Which I fully understand. You are actually a hybrid so from a design standpoint, you may feel weak when you don't get to use all of your abilities. That doesn't mean you are actually weak since you are capable of answering most predicaments which plague a party.

[Wavaryen]

Which I fully understand. You are actually a hybrid so from a design standpoint, you may feel weak when you don't get to use all of your abilities. That doesn't mean you are actually weak since you are capable of answering most predicaments which plague a party.

That leads to the question, if I hardly get to use that support in that content, should the class be punished with less dps because of it? As in that group, you are not invited for your support, as it is not needed. You are taking a slot for that dps.

I hope I am makaing sense. I have been up way to long due to rl pain. So my thoughts are kinda all over the place.

[Orbiaus]

A DPS should be a DPS. It fills a dmg spot and should be used as such. Having a mix just leaves a class not knowing what it is and leaves the group lacking in dps. It should be one or the other. I'm not even sure why MCH is support because bard has more buffs so wouldn't taking a BRD be more useful than MCH if people do want the support features?

[DreameR7g]

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If you are hardly able to use the support capable of your class, SE needs to design situations where your supporting capabilities (along with your DPS) are better needed. At the moment, Heavensward was just released about 3-4 weeks ago if I'm not mistaken. Naturally, some jobs will have some identity crises due to the expansion of abilities, some buffed and some nerfed. Sadly, Bard is just one of those jobs because they are a hybrid design from 2.0. I would say hang in there, learn your rotations with the new abilities. After all, some of their newer abilities like Wanderer's Minuet and the bursty arrows vert recently got buffed so increase your DPS.