I chose BRD for swift gameplay, if I wanted to cast I would have chosen a Mage.

[Fitzy]

And you never explained how a cast bar butchers the playstyle for bard. You just call it clunky and rant about it. What do you sacrifice other than mobility with it?

Instant hits on mobs? You're still on the GCD so that only matters when you miss a deathblow.
Weaving 2 skills oGCD?
Anything else?

How can you not see how it changes the playstyle, would a dragoon be happy with cast bars for all their skills or a ninja. To basically reiterate it again our playstyle shifted from something that would more closely resemble how a melee class functions but from a ranged point of view and turned us into ghetto black mages instead. Id call that a rather significant change in direction and playstyle.

Your playing what a paladin or warrior based on your character im guessing, how would you feel to have all your pld/war abilities turned into cast timers after 2 years of playing with them.

[Dante_V]

"Ghetto black mages"

Wow. Just wow.

[StouterTaru]

How can you not see how it changes the playstyle, would a dragoon be happy with cast bars for all their skills or a ninja. To basically reiterate it again our playstyle shifted from something that would more closely resemble how a melee class functions but from a ranged point of view and turned us into ghetto black mages instead. Id call that a rather significant change in direction and playstyle.

Your playing what a paladin or warrior based on your character im guessing, how would you feel to have all your pld/war abilities turned into cast timers after 2 years of playing with them.

Again you skipped what you are sacrificing besides mobility.

I play BLM and WAR, I don't think I would have an issue with a buff giving cast bars for WAR if it was that big of a boost. BLM got an extension of the cast time on their spells with a harsher penalty for movement, the sky isn't falling.

[Anzaman]

Just wish that they'd give it at lower level for us if they plan to keep it, so I could level up my Archer/Bard without chancing the style after ~50 levels.

[Fitzy]

Again you skipped what you are sacrificing besides mobility.

I play BLM and WAR, I don't think I would have an issue with a buff giving cast bars for WAR if it was that big of a boost. BLM got an extension of the cast time on their spells with a harsher penalty for movement, the sky isn't falling.

Then as i said earlier good for you, your in the small group that generally likes the change.

As for what your giving up, you hit most of the stuff on top of lose of auto attacks, loss of potential procs, lost resources from the procs and lose of damage to recover those resources, as well as the usual issues that come with interupting casts after things like repelling shot or being unable to shoot out a fast silence when the need arised.

However you took the original quote completely out of context. The willingness to sacrifice mobility had nothing to do with the acceptance of cast timers. The stuff about cast timers was mostly about having a playstyle that is NOT the playstyle that we originally picked the job for forced upon those that play it.

Essentially look at it kinda like 2 parts.

The first is that something had to be sacrificed to achieve the damage increase
The second is the ability should not affect the overall playstyle of the job.

Now people will either agree with 1 or the other, both or neither.
I happen to agree with both. I was willing to sacrifice the mobility but I want to retain the original playstyle of the job.

The problem is that Wanderers Minuet, somewhat fits the first part, but completely fails the second part.

The example i posted earlier however generally fulfills both parts and i feel this would have been a batter way to go about it

An example I used before which I based around 1.0 dragoons Power Surge skill and that I am told was similar to hunter from WoW (I can’t confirm since I was an FFXI player) was a passive skill that granted a damage buff after standing still and using 3 weaponskills and for every further 3 consecutive weaponskills granted a stack, stacking up to say 3 times.
Upon moving, the buff would be removed and a debuff would be placed on you preventing you from reacquiring the buff for say the next 15-20 seconds. This debuff might even prevent auto attacks or something if balancing required further repurcussions.

The above example achieves almost the same effect as Wanderers Minuet but doesn’t drastically alter the 2.X playstyle by introducing stupid restrictions such as cast timers.

[Lewtskie]

Just wish that they'd give it at lower level for us if they plan to keep it, so I could level up my Archer/Bard without chancing the style after ~50 levels.

The best to have done, probably, was overhaul Bard from the ground up, establish it as a caster shooter at level 1 and later in levels provide Wanderer's Minuet as a stance that turned everything insta-cast with a minor reduction. This inversion would have set how people would have come into Bard, and then unlocking Wanderer's at a later level would have been better received.

Would have made more sense too, having WANDERER'S Minuet let you move around freely.

Again you skipped what you are sacrificing besides mobility.

I play BLM and WAR, I don't think I would have an issue with a buff giving cast bars for WAR if it was that big of a boost. BLM got an extension of the cast time on their spells with a harsher penalty for movement, the sky isn't falling.

Rapid fire and instant effects gives Bard a smooth flow with a lot of their abilities. This also includes needing to repel on reflex, pop a silence at a moments notice, and play a song (the sooner the better) without having to flick a thumbstick or hit the cancel button. That's what the playstyle was about, quick reflex. It's janky now if under Minuet, and even just popping it off unless your skill queue is clear will need like a quarter of a second to come off.

[Velhart]

What does Japan and other language forums feel about the casting stances?

[Maero]

I doubt very much that se will remove cast times, why not just learn how to play the class with it's changes? At least give the changes a chance... It's not like 100% of those that dislike the changes have done actual raiding and testing.
Also there is a threshhold in which you could actually move and the cast will still go off, you do not have to sit there and wait, blm is the same for that.

And please stop putting blm or caster in the conversations, most of you have never even played as a blm

[Lillia]

This topic again?

[SendohJin]

What's changed in the playstyle since then? Nothing really, other than the skill not being instant.

What's changed about that guy? Nothing really, just that his tongue is missing.

Skills not being instant is everything to some people. Physical DPS jobs should have instant skills. That should be the difference between Disciples of War and Disciples of Magic. Sure there are hybrids, but the hybrid should make sense (PLD with white magic, DRK with Dark Magic, BRD with songs). If they wanted BRDs to have less instant skills give them more songs that are good enough to be put into every rotation, don't change everything that already existed. Iron Jaws could've been a song.

Why have 4 ranged DPS that all don't play with instant skills? Are ranged instant skills that overpowered? Why isn't there more creative ways to balance that besides doing away with them?