Primal confusion - spoilers

[Ibi]

To complicate matters, Thordan and the Twelve Knights wear Primal forms of themselves, so essentially tempering themselves to an idealized image of themselves, mostly leaving them mentally the same, but overall leaving them even more devoted to the Archbishop, their Godking.

Thordan VII and the Heaven's Ward take the form of Thordan I and his Twelve Knights (the ones with the statues lining the main thoroughfare in The Pillars) when they go into Primal form.

As far as we know, it's the same kind of transformation that Ysayle undergoes when she becomes Shiva; there seems to be some element of the summoner's will (though we don't know how much) directing how the resulting entity acts.

[WyrahFhurrst]

Thordan VII and the Heaven's Ward take the form of Thordan I and his Twelve Knights (the ones with the statues lining the main thoroughfare in The Pillars) when they go into Primal form.

As far as we know, it's the same kind of transformation that Ysayle undergoes when she becomes Shiva; there seems to be some element of the summoner's will (though we don't know how much) directing how the resulting entity acts.

It would be, if they didn't keep their own names when they transformed. Iceheart becomes Shiva, but the knights keep their own names when they transform. Whether that's an example of the knights taking the names of the original twelve, or if their primal forms take their own names, I don't know if we know. I used the latter as my reasoning toward my decision that they are idealized forms of themselves, since they keep their own names they may very well simply be the same mind as the original host (the knight from today), just warped to an idealized form as a Primal.

[treuhavik]

Letting down the walls of one's soul and channeling a greater power than said person would naturally possess -- it's all exactly the same, from Iceheart to the Knights Twelve. I even believe the Asican's use this method of summoning when entering their "battle stance" (glyph). This is the true power of the echo. ...Aside from immortality, of course.

It would be, if they didn't keep their own names when they transformed. Iceheart becomes Shiva, but the knights keep their own names when they transform. Whether that's an example of the knights taking the names of the original twelve, or if their primal forms take their own names, I don't know if we know. I used the latter as my reasoning toward my decision that they are idealized forms of themselves, since they keep their own names they may very well simply be the same mind as the original host (the knight from today), just warped to an idealized form as a Primal.

It's my belief that the distinction here is simply a matter of what the summoner chooses to refer to themselves as after their transformation. Ysayle calls herself Shiva when she summons her perceived "Shiva-Power", whereas the Knights view it as simply summoning those guys' power to use as themselves however they wish. The game has always worked like this -- until someone or thing tells us what to call a person, they are known as "???". So, if some NPC named Steve changes outfits, puts on costume or summons primal power into himself and tells us to call him Jeffery now, cause he's "different", we will call him Jeffery until he returns to Steve form. But if he were to do the same thing, yet still refer to himself as Steve... Make sense?

[WyrahFhurrst]

-snip-

I agree your point makes sense, but I do still believe otherwise. Which I think is fine, unless the devs come in and tell us one way or another.