Bard - they broke my job

[Snowaeth]

My personal complaints?

BRD = wannabee MCH with WM. Bad class design, copy pasted skill, doesn't fit the kit.
I don't like the playstyle of WM, yet the other option of a comparable class comes with a copy pasted skill instead of offering different options. Just this fact alone that they didn't bother designing the BRD and MCH to be different and rather tried to make them as much as possible the same just rubs me the wrong way.

Heck I can play Bow Wizard np that isn't my real issue, the fact that the class is badly designed and on top of it partially copy pasted is. Every class has a kit that works together and then there is archer the class that branches into two jobs, bard and bow wizard. Both jobs don't work well separately where the bard has been nerfed into the ground to make bow wizard more apealing and the bow wizard doesn't have the parts that made the bard have an optimized flow to it.

People are also comparing MCH to BRD and telling they'r in the same spot. Well they'r not. MCH is a case of l2p a new class and a hate it or like it new gameplay. BRD was one of the most liked dps classes and just straight up got this new gameplay shoved up our throat. Obviously some might like it, but those same people most likely would have liked MCH after a bit of practice too. Why couldn't the BRD actually get creative skills? I don't see the melee getting 5 copy pasted skills from each other either. What about BLM & SMN their new skills are not a copy paste of each other...

[Arrik]

snip

Well what I want is 1 of 3 things:

1. Bard is declared a DPS w/ support like the rest of the DPS currently in game. What this means is they keep the DPS designation, WD and other factors that are currently lowering DPS are brought up to bring Bard dps about equal to a Caster if WM is kept up full time. Not equal to Melee, and not when WM is taken off. If this means an increase in the penalty for using a song so be it and/or moving Sidewinder into WM to buff it, you guys can whine when I refuse to babysit the other DPS who is dying for no reason or the healer who is unable to manage MP on his/her own. Enough changes are made to the Bard kit (which may include making the songs weaker) to allow stacking more than one Bard in a similar situation as all the other DPS (utility goes down but uptime of the utility they do have is brought up; Think TA or Battle Litany, more DRG or NIN increase uptime of the buff but less buff diversity since they all have the same ones). It sucks learning one playstyle until 52, and another after it, so I'd move WM down to 30 (as it's not going away, sorry some other Bards). May also drop songs completely and rename the job Ranger, as that appears easier for some people to have as a DPS then a "Bard."

2. Bard is declared support first. DPS is either unaffected or lowered, and a support role is introduced in order to prevent stacking support for dps checks. You will have to wait for a Bard for every damn dungeon you do unless you premake it. Light party is now either 5 people (tank dps x2 support healer) or rebalanced to (tank dps support healer) and Full party is now (tank x2 healer x2 dps x3 support). Content is balance around requiring one support for everything, so don't you dare go without one. Changes to the Bard kit are made to focus on Support, which could including taking buffs away from other classes/jobs. Support LB implemented or Ranged LB lowered to last on damage and never used. May keep the Bow or could potentially trade for a Harp. Think Songweaver from Aion, quite a bit more support but a little magic dps, but even weaker dps or even FFXI Bard rotations.

3. Bard is even more radically changed and is moved into a healer role, like I mentioned previously. CNJ sub is returned, as is the Healer LB3. May also sub another mage to really lower that dps (healer dps is bonus, right guys? /s). Minuet changed to a healer stance to make up for the way Cure formulas are implemented, and moved down to lvl 30. Archer would require a complete rework to healer, or dropping a class completely and changing the main hand to Harp. Songs changed to HoT affects and more support-based utility. Think Bard from Aura Kingdom or Eden Eternal.

TL;DR Any job placed into a role in the trinity should be treated the same way within that role, not this half-assed hybrid stuff. Most of this could also apply to MCH (Even making it a support/healer like Flintlock in FFTA2, yuck; and use MCH interchangeably with Bard everywhere above). Options 2 and 3 could also take the DPS from Bard and give them to a Ranger or Musketeer. But every update what they have tried to do is to push Bard farther from "support" (removing CNJ sub, changing the LB, etc; and giving support freely across the other jobs) so I don't really understand why they don't go all in on it. This is of course the extreme examples, and I'm sure all of what I'm asking would never be implemented, just the spirit of each option. And I'm still not asking for top dps, just to be treated fairly within our role, or to change it.

[Ooshima]

Its just a super standard krietor opener since its without minuet on.

HE + RS + BL > SS > B4B + IR > WB > dex pot > vb > barrage + sidewinder > heavyshot > flaming arrow + bl or repelling shot > hs > you get the idea.

From then on I just played it exactly like 2.0 bard except you make sure not to barrage anything other than heavy shot and you try to not cry when you think about how much weaker new barrage is than old barrage.

I spent the night tying to figure out how you sustained 980 over 5 mins with just party/food/pot but I still can't get it because it simply drops off the 1K mark too fast D:

[Kaith]

The problem with new BRD playstyle seems to be entirely down to the cast times during WM. The lack of movement isn't a big deal. It's that juggling the sheer number of oGCDs we have whilst only being able to fit in 1 between each shot is an impossible task.

Other casting jobs don't have the same number of oGCDs to keep on CD like BRD.

If they gave us some way of keeping on top of our oGCDs I'd be happy. Either through removing the casting times, allowing us to trigger oGCDs during casting or consolidating our buffs somehow during WM mode.

[ChloeGrace]

-snip-

tl; dr: No idea how this job is played, but STFU and suck it up.

[Arrik]

The problem with new BRD playstyle seems to be entirely down to the cast times during WM. The lack of movement isn't a big deal. It's that juggling the sheer number of oGCDs we have whilst only being able to fit in 1 between each shot is an impossible task.

Other casting jobs don't have the same number of oGCDs to keep on CD like BRD.

If they gave us some way of keeping on top of our oGCDs I'd be happy. Either through removing the casting times, allowing us to trigger oGCDs during casting or consolidating our buffs somehow during WM mode.

I'd argue it stems more from SE more than anything. Putting a job in a DPS role but considering it support is doing the job no favors and is hard to balance around. It's really why I'm against Hybrid jobs, there are by definition weaker than the Pure jobs (or why would you take the pure job), but must be capable enough to replace one. That's what we have now, a DPS/Support hybrid that isn't capable of replacing more than 1 "Pure" dps in content. WM is a little slapped on, it does synergize a bit better with pre-50 abilities than MCH I'd say(having a WM ability affect the DoTs for example), but the oGCD thing is a pain.

[MercureXI]

tl; dr: No idea how this job is played, but STFU and suck it up.

TLDR or can't read ?

Still nothing to say, got pawned hard, had to resort to good ol' "STFU" as ultimate defense system ?

L

O

L

[Arrik]

Alexander patch notes would like to have a word with you.

Casting times are no more mate.

That's casting time to put up WM, not the casting time on every WS under WM. Probably part of the reason you aren't being taken seriously by anyone but me. And before you reply to that, yes I answered every one of your posts, and broke down what I want from the Job unlike the "STFU you don't have Bard lvld" people. I typically pre-read for a job I intend to start, so I can join in the conversation before lvling it, so that argument isn't a good one if you have researched. I don't like attacking people like that, so I instead talked about every point you made.

Off-topic Edit: While we're on casting times, I'd very much like the animation changed to actually nocking an arrow and drawing the bow back, and getting rid of the hiss.

[MercureXI]

Snip

Yeah misread his comment as "casting times" as in "downtime to put up WM", which is no more as of today's patch. 5:43am, cut me some slack, but quick to react on this anyway.

I don't worry about being "taken seriously", the whole community kinda thinks the same as I do :

Essentially, most bards are complaining because the game is giving you an incentive to stand still rather than run around pointlessly. You can now turn WM off easily whenever you have to move to dodge or handle mechanics and continue dps'ing in the 2.0 style; which is still more than other classes can do. How does this affect the way you play Bard unless you played it redundantly to begin with; running around aimlessly for no reason ?

[Minorinz]

lol there is so much hate and negative energy going in here you can almost summon an angry bard primal with it. This wasn't even as bad as smn threads...

/just passing by don't kill me pls