Bard - they broke my job

[Arrik]

Bard is a support dps. You may not queue as a support job....but we are support.

So it is ok for parties to suffer because the DF strings together 2 or 4 "support"? No other dps has this problem with stacking.

I mean for FFS, we have Wardern's Paeon, Foe's Requiem, Mage's Ballad and Army Paeon, each of those are game changers. Most of the other dps classes "support" buff themselves on top of the party, the only exclusion is ninja goad. What other class has a prevention esuna?

None. They just get party-wide crit buffs, enmity reduction-redirection tools, one of the better party-wide dps increasers (TA), abilities that reduce incoming damage (E4E, virus, dragon kick), abilities that increase damage of a certain type (slashing, etc). The best part is some of these aren't even hindered when rotated.

Healer comparison doesn't work, we healers have those abilities to help us solo dps (fact: you can't heal things to death this isn't levi ex), if we use them in dungeon it's a bonus we don't have to.

And yet they were still out dpsing the "support" dps in actual content.

Se themselves have said Bard is a support dps type.

Then it needs to be it's own role, to prevent parties being hindered by the DF stacking "support" instead of dps.

EDIT: At this point I'd almost rather them give me the conjurer sub back, the healer lb3 and shift me to full support. This personality disorder with them changing things for dps but not enough is getting silly.

[Noira]

The dps abilities we have is to keep up with the damage of the enemies scaling. Cleric stance is for primarily for soloing we DO NOT have to dps. Second it's to keep up with the consistency of the FF lore, Most whm have always had stone 3 (though named different)....like I said you cannot heal something to death. How would you progress in the story as healer without dps abilities ?

The fact that bard job abilities is mostly support abilities tells you a support type..It's not like other classes where ONE ability is an off handed support type. It doesn't have to be said it's implied.

[Snugglebutt]

Bard is a support dps. You may not queue as a support job....but we are support.

Correction it is a DPS with support. DPS first and foremost, support second. It is not a support with DPS, that is what the healing classes are. You want to make me support first, DPS second then give me the ability to raise the dead during combat and heal their wounds. Interesting how so many bards are being excluded from endgame content or being insulted during runs in such content since HW came out with the excuse always being not enough DPS as opposed to not enough songs. It is a fact a bard is DPS first, support second so don't waste time trying to argue differently. Your job requires you to output as much DPS as possible and occasionally throw out a song for the group only when needed.

[Arrik]

The dps abilities we have is to keep up with the damage of the enemies scaling. Cleric stance is for primarily for soloing we DO NOT have to dps. Second it's to keep up with the consistency of the FF lore, Most whm have always had stone 3 (though named different)....like I said you cannot heal something to death. How would you progress in the story as healer without dps abilities ?

The fact that bard job abilities is mostly support abilities tells you a support type..It's not like other classes where ONE ability is an off handed support type. It doesn't have to be said it's implied.

No, you do have to in upcoming content. SE themselves have said they were shocked healers were doing dps in coil and have taken that into account this time around. And even if you don't have to, when you do you sure do it a hell of a lot better than the "support" dps.

[Panasync]

The dps abilities we have is to keep up with the damage of the enemies scaling. Cleric stan...

Again, I stated this in my last reply, if they were only solo abilities, they would be unusable outside of solo or small party situations. That's not the case is it?

The fact that bard job abilities is mostly support abilities tells you a support type...

I'm sorry how many support abilities are needed before you're a support? 3? 4? Guess what, probably more than half of the DPS are now support jobs. The support abilities Bard is given has the caveat of lowered DPS potential BUILT-IN. That is how they balanced it, we'll give you support abilities, but if you use or abuse them you can't do proper DPS. There is a trade off, the class is not a support class. Bard in FFXI is a support class, Bard in FFXIV is a DPS class with some support abilities, like the rest of the jobs.

[MercureXI]

Bard is not a support job. etc etc etc

You are a support job, the old Healing LB was a big hint at this. If you think you are just another DPS, think again.

Every dps has support abilities that regen TP / MP / add 10% magic damage for extended amount of time ?

Face it, other dps jobs support the team for like what ? 15 sec ? Mantra (Monk) / Crit buff (Drg) etc ? That's far from what BRDs can bring to the table.

Not to mention mages like WHM / AST need a stance to DPS, and they also lose something for that : their Healing power (see ? just like BRD lose dps for songs).

And you can use Requiem without losing anything. Songs can be used during downtime too (mob jumps, aoe evasion phases, etc) where you lose almost no dps.

You have a spot in most raids just because of this, and you curse it ?

I'd remove songs altogether, and give those to another job, I bet BRDs would whine even more, no ?

[Snugglebutt]

-snip-

Your argument is so full of holes I am not even sure if it is worth arguing with you about it...One thing I did find amusing and will thank you for is your trying to use the 'old' LB as an excuse. A LB that SE admits was not the right decision and has fixed by giving us a DPS LB. As for the rest I will point you in the direction of my post #613 above because I am beginning to get tired of arguing the same thing over and over with people such as yourself.

We have support abilities to help others and you might be able to fall back on the excuse of the bard lore having a support style description however...in the real world of in-game mechanics and role responsibility we are a DPS first and support second, not a support first with DPS second. Likewise we are not a support only or DPS only but it is a fact that we are a DPS first and foremost with added 'secondary' support features. If your not playing it as DPS first, support second you really are playing bard badly.

[Smeggles]

They have helped bards do at least a little better DPS, but eh whatever. The playstyle that I loved for 2 years is no longer viable with them ramming this bow wizard playstyle down our throats. I'm just going to finish levelling a different job, bow wizard is not fun.

*Hangs his Artemis on the wall, as the song in his heart dies out*

[Warlyx]

You are a support job, the old Healing LB was a big hint at this. If you think you are just another DPS, think again.

Every dps has support abilities that regen TP / MP / add 10% magic damage for extended amount of time ?

Face it, other dps jobs support the team for like what ? 15 sec ? Mantra (Monk) / Crit buff (Drg) etc ? That's far from what BRDs can bring to the table.

Not to mention mages like WHM / AST need a stance to DPS, and they also lose something for that : their Healing power (see ? just like BRD lose dps for songs).

And you can use Requiem without losing anything. Songs can be used during downtime too (mob jumps, aoe evasion phases, etc) where you lose almost no dps.

You have a spot in most raids just because of this, and you curse it ?

I'd remove songs altogether, and give those to another job, I bet BRDs would whine even more, no ?

FFXIV existed before ARR , at the time BRD was more support than in ARR , hell they could even crossclas with conjurer for heals and raise , on the transition to ARR , SE gave the BRD the healer LB for that reason (or lazyness because creating a LB just for 1 job was too much) , plenty of other reasons , but hey "think again".


other dps suppor the team permantly too , the slashing, piercing and blunt debuff are permanent if the dps keeps doing his rotation (as he should be doing) nin is the only 1 that is forced to drop the best rotation to keep it.

is bard support permanent? FAR FROM IT , u know that all the songs drain MP? and MP is finite....even then singing MP TP song when isnt needed is just losing 15% just because.

WHM got nukes in 3.0 to help it dpsing on raids , and SE expect healers to dps in raids ,is a given now. they lose healing power on Cleric stance? yes of course , else healers will be OP.

but BRD/MCH arent doing insane dmg on the "Dps" stance , far from it.

[PlumpyMcduff]

You are a support job, the old Healing LB was a big hint at this...

Guess what, they took that Healer LB away from us.