Primal confusion - spoilers

[Anonymoose]

Now that I've had some time to puzzle out some order in this thread...

I'm a bit confused about the primals' origins

Aether + Zealous, Focused Prayer = [Primal] where [Primal = Aetherial shade bearing the shape of what was prayed for].

causing a massive aetherical explosion that allowed Primals to roam in Eorzea

This event, known as the Battle of Silvertear Skies (aka the Fall of the Keeper), shattered a seal that Midgardsormr was protecting. The seal was placed upon a massive confluence of aether, the nature of which will be revealed later in the Version 3 cycle. We don't really understand the nature of the seal, but we know that primal aether becomes tainted; perhaps the Allag were doing something with primal-tainted aether.

In 2.0 we just know that the beast tribes love summoning primals to get rid of people or to protect themeselves

This was true back in 1.0, as well. After the Fall of the Keeper, the Ascians started appearing to the beast tribes in the guise of their divine messengers, the Paragons. They taught to them the secrets of summoning their gods, who they said would lead them to salvation in times of strife. Summoning leads to (in some cases) tempering, and tempering leads to conflict with the five races (and some already had a history of conflict with them at that). With the invasion of the Garlean Empire, the beast tribes were already on edge, this only served to exacerbate it; the Ascians are all about chaos via conflict and death. However, the Ascians were also showing up without their Paragon costume on, scaring the hells out of the beast tribes. The Amalj'aa and Ixal were terrified of the reaper, and (in the unreleased Titan quests) the Reaper was said to flat out attack Mt. O'Ghomoro to stoke the summoning of Titan.

Ramuh: he wants to test the Warrior of Light's strength and isn't really an enemy. How come?

As far as we know? The nature of lightning as a philosophical element (wise and calculating, but swift, and merciless in its judgment) and the mindset of the Sylphs that summoned him. They wanted a wise, benevolent judge that would protect the wood as they knew it.

What "sealed" the primals back then?

The Secrets of Allag™

What about Phoenix then? Eikon or primal?

We've been told primal, we may be told otherwise later. Depends on what the eventual meaning of eikon turns out to be.

Ramuh <...> remembers a time before the age of man, as if he was there when it happened.

But does he? Ysayle knew Shiva's emotions and sentiments, but it was all conjured by her own mind. The sylphs could have imbued him with these memories, or they could very well be true and drawn straight from the memories of the aether. We don't really know yet, but we have more options than simply, "Ramuh remembers."

Seems the longer we go on, the less clear it becomes.

All we can really go on is what we've been told, and then theories that don't conflict with what we've been told. Time will tell!

I'm also curious of how Enkidu fits in to all this. I guess his situation falls into the "Ease of Summoning" line of questioning.

If it comes from the Hildibrand story, it's only canon as you want to think it is. It's written by a scenario team, and sometimes even the people who make the world lore don't think it conforms with it. Because this is a comedy scenario, there's a bit more wiggle room; Hildibrand can get a pass on something that doesn't make sense (or, at least heavily exaggerates something that does) if it's funny. The NPCs themselves tell you that it doesn't fit with what we know; they stop just short of breaking the fourth wall to say "This makes no sense. You, on the other side of the screen, don't take this too seriously!" Enkidu might be no more accurate an example of a primal than Hildibrand is an accurate example of what happens when you fall 500 stories and take a bomb to the face; however, you might also be able to find just the right framing of it to make just enough sense of it, with enough work. It might not flat out conflict with the world-lore in all cases, but it's dubious enough to not use it as a metric for speculation on matters unconfirmed.

The Twelve are primals.

The Twelve that would be summoned if someone tried to summon them would be akin to primals, but there might be more to them... somewhere.
Or they might all be embellished myths based on the Zodiac Braves or the Archons or something...

[LaurelinKementari]

Aether + Zealous, Focused Prayer = [Primal] where [Primal = Aetherial shade bearing the shape of what was prayed for].

Which just begs the question of why the Ixal would summon Garuda as she is: insane, bloodthirsty and not at all interested in helping the Ixal "regain their wings". Especially since she'll just as happily rip them to pieces as us, as long as it serves her ends. Why keep summoning that? It doesn't seem to make a whole lot of sense. Or maybe the Ixal are just insane, too.

[Zorzi]

Which just begs the question of why the Ixal would summon Garuda as she is: insane, bloodthirsty and not at all interested in helping the Ixal "regain their wings". Especially since she'll just as happily rip them to pieces as us, as long as it serves her ends. Why keep summoning that? It doesn't seem to make a whole lot of sense. Or maybe the Ixal are just insane, too.

I'm guessing they wanted a strong warrior, and the myth of Garuda does have her turn crazy at the end. Maybe their wish for wings got corrupted by the summoners' own subconscious idea of Garuda?

Also I think only the tempered continue summoning. The first time they were tricked by the Ascians, and then Garuda turned them into slaves. The Ixal daily NPCs that didn't get tempered are more sane and don't like her at all.

[Anonymoose]

Which just begs the question of why the Ixal would summon Garuda as she is: insane, bloodthirsty and not at all interested in helping the Ixal <...> Why keep summoning that?

Why is Garuda like she is...?

Much like my speculation about Ramuh, I think there's an interplay between the elemental philosophy, Ixal mythology, and present circumstances. Wind is capricious; it appears to change in direction and intensity on but a whim. (Capricious is actually been used to describe her, many times.) The original worship of Garuda wasn't centered on the Lady of the Vortex, but the Empress of Birds. Their legends say that she once did combat with the Lord of Snakes, a merciless reptilian deity that sought to bind all things to the ground. She overcame him, but was so injured that she was forced to consume his flesh to restore her own, which left her with an insatiable hunger for ground-walkers. She championed the avians, but she was mercurial and could be vicious.

Along come the Paragons - the messengers of the divine, as far as they know - five years after the Garlean Empire invades Eorzea. They hint that Garuda can be brought to this realm to fulfill their dreams, destroy the Garlean invaders (probably leaving out the part where the Garleans specifically hate summoned things), and keep them safe from any other aggressors. They'd spent 140 years becoming engineers and building airships and taking to the skies, but this was a chance to regain their wings, so they desperately grasped at it. (I'm assuming the appearance of, and supposed attacks by, the Reaper didn't help, considering the Ixal were there when it showed up in Thanalan and they fled screaming in terror. Actually, when it showed up, the Ashcrown Consortium had just defused a conflict between Amalj'aa and Ixal arguing over crystals and whose primal was stronger and would be the one to crush the Empire; they were about to summon Ifrit and Garuda to battle for them right there; pretty much exactly what the Ascians wanted.)

Now, the Garuda Card hints that being imbued with the ever shifting, ever moving, ever changing aspect of wind is part of what broke the primal's mind (perhaps upon her summoning, perhaps just as an inherent part of it), so if you combine that with what the Ixal to believe her origin story to be while factoring in for philosophical associations of wind as well as their desire to see her crush the Empire, it's not so weird that she turned out like she did.

Why keep summoning her...!?

Tempering, mainly, I'd assume. She tempered the group that summoned her right out of the gate, those who didn't submit to it were exiled by the ones who did. Tempering removes all doubt of divinity; no matter what she does or doesn't do, she's still The One True God for them. I'd bet the general sentiment at the Ixal camps was, "Well, no, she hasn't given us our feathers and wings back, yet, but she helps our balloons fly with her airstones, and one day, when we make her happy, when we're truly worthy..." Stockholm Syndrome of the Gods.

The leader of the Ehcatl Nine laments this, harshly criticizing the Ixal for not realizing that Garuda is mad and will never grant their wings.

[Kallera]

Not to throw another wrench into this...but where do the Twelve fit in? They are worshipped, but not made manifest(except an attempt by lousioux, but that didn't quite last...). Is it that their worship do not typically involve the siphoning of aether/crystals as a ritual?

[dragoelete]

Not to throw another wrench into this...but where do the Twelve fit in? They are worshipped, but not made manifest(except an attempt by lousioux, but that didn't quite last...). Is it that their worship do not typically involve the siphoning of aether/crystals as a ritual?

the 12 are still there but they are in the aether stream as while they are worshiped they have never been summoned. and lousioux didn't try to "summon" them he was "channeling" there power to try to reseal bahamut but upon noticing that he was getting to close to summoning them he forcefully stopped thus why bahamut was able to escape. at which point all the prayers of the people ended up being absorbed into him thus forcefully changing him into pheonix.

[Anonymoose]

Not to throw another wrench into this...but where do the Twelve fit in?

Depends on who the Twelve really are. There are a lot of myths and theories out there, but how much do we really know? Some hints suggest that they're just myths of the Archons that have grown too big for their own shoes over the millennia. Other myths suggest that they were the original, deific inhabitants of Eorzea and left during the First Umbral Era, closing out the Age of the Gods. The symbols of the Twelve even showed up on Allagan runestones, but I assume they didn't think of that symbol representing Menphina: The Goddess of the Twin Moons considering they built one of said moons themselves.

I still hold out a little hope that they're real and perhaps a class of deity we've yet to really articulate. It would be lonely with just Hydaelyn, but ... of all the gods of all the cultures of all the eras, what are the chances all of our city-states just happened to be the ones who were right? Oh, man, what if they were just Eikons? Like, real Eikons...

They are worshipped, but not made manifest (except an attempt by lousioux, but that didn't quite last...). Is it that their worship do not typically involve the siphoning of aether/crystals as a ritual?

More or less. You can worship without conjuring a manifestation. Louisoix's ritual actually was a legitimate summoning (Tupsimati + Prayers infused into the land at stones encircling Mor Dhona), but he planned to harness their strength to return Dalamud to the heavens and then kill himself at 90% of the casting timer so they couldn't manifest physically in our world - most people just don't know that part because Bahamut interrupted the cast at 60% and we saw the results of those events. No matter how the the Battle of Cartenau played out, however, Louisoix wasn't coming home; something that only came out in the short stories posted for ARR's one year anniversary.

[CodeCass]

Enkidu might be no more accurate an example of a primal than Hildibrand is an accurate example of what happens when you fall 500 stories and take a bomb to the face; however, you might also be able to find just the right framing of it to make just enough sense of it, with enough work. It might not flat out conflict with the world-lore in all cases, but it's dubious enough to not use it as a metric for speculation on matters unconfirmed.

This makes a lot of sense! Never thought about it like that.