[dev1017] Materia crafting system & Materia: A Matter of Mystery (08/26/2011)

[Verence]

Upgrading your gear in the first place is completely optional. The fact that it is set as an attainable goal means people will be trying for it. I don't have to use armor OR weapons appropriate to my rank, but if I want to do my job well you'd better believe I will be. Saying "You don't have to" presents a false dilemma. You don't HAVE to play Final Fantasy XIV. You don't HAVE to wear armor. But, you know what, if you're serious about your job, you will.

I can think of a fairly simple alternative if making crafted goods more desirable is the main benefit of all this. Require additional items to make slots. Want a slot in your Jade Hora? Feed it another Jade Hora. Voila. Demand goes up, headbanging goes down. I don't know if they plan to allow slotting of Unique items, but it wouldn't be too hard to require a non-unique analogue, so long as it's made explicitly clear when you attempt to slot it just what you'd need. Or, maybe they didn't intend slotting of Unique gear and we can sidestep the entire issue.

My point being, "You don't have to" doesn't really mean much. Of course we're going to. Don't make us grind our teeth while we do.

[Arcell]

Upgrading your gear in the first place is completely optional. The fact that it is set as an attainable goal means people will be trying for it. I don't have to use armor OR weapons appropriate to my rank, but if I want to do my job well you'd better believe I will be. Saying "You don't have to" presents a false dilemma. You don't HAVE to play Final Fantasy XIV. You don't HAVE to wear armor. But, you know what, if you're serious about your job, you will.

I can think of a fairly simple alternative if making crafted goods more desirable is the main benefit of all this. Require additional items to make slots. Want a slot in your Jade Hora? Feed it another Jade Hora. Voila. Demand goes up, headbanging goes down. I don't know if they plan to allow slotting of Unique items, but it wouldn't be too hard to require a non-unique analogue, so long as it's made explicitly clear when you attempt to slot it just what you'd need. Or, maybe they didn't intend slotting of Unique gear and we can sidestep the entire issue.

My point being, "You don't have to" doesn't really mean much. Of course we're going to. Don't make us grind our teeth while we do.

There's a large gap between not using appropriate rank gear and slight bonuses from materia attachment. Without appropriate rank gear you're severely decreasing your survivability, damage output and otherwise ability to accomplish your role in battle. Without a few materia bonuses you're just losing a few points in a few stats.

It's more akin to NQ vs HQ equipment currently. If you don't have HQ equipment most people won't look down on you for it but you're missing out on some stat bonuses. If you don't have five-slotted equipment I feel it would work to the same effect. People who have to have THE best stuff will strive for it while others like myself will be okay with one or two slotted gear.

[Verence]

There's a large gap between not using appropriate rank gear and slight bonuses from materia attachment. Without appropriate rank gear you're severely decreasing your survivability, damage output and otherwise ability to accomplish your role in battle. Without a few materia bonuses you're just losing a few points in a few stats.

It's more akin to NQ vs HQ equipment currently. If you don't have HQ equipment most people won't look down on you for it but you're missing out on some stat bonuses. If you don't have five-slotted equipment I feel it would work to the same effect. People who have to have THE best stuff will strive for it while others like myself will be okay with one or two slotted gear.

There isn't enough info available to make that argument, and based on past experience with both + gear systems and gear slotting in other MMOs, including the one prior to this made by the same company, I would say this is quite likely entirely inaccurate. Small bonuses accumulate quickly, and with the potential for five slots per equip, you are seriously crippling your potential by not pushing for as much materia as possible - not to mention you fail to take into account that people will probably want to slot their hard-earned + gear. Punishing those who attempt to go above and beyond inspires nothing but mediocrity and fails to reward diligent work.

[Arcell]

There isn't enough info available to make that argument, and based on past experience with both + gear systems and gear slotting in other MMOs, including the one prior to this made by the same company, I would say this is quite likely entirely inaccurate. Small bonuses accumulate quickly, and with the potential for five slots per equip, you are seriously crippling your potential by not pushing for as much materia as possible - not to mention you fail to take into account that people will probably want to slot their hard-earned + gear. Punishing those who attempt to go above and beyond inspires nothing but mediocrity and fails to reward diligent work.

But with the simplification of crafting as well as the HQ changes, equipment won't be that hard to replace if it does blow up in your face. Yes it'll take a lot of time to convert materia again though that could always be skipped by buying it from others.

[ViolentDjango]

Maybe I missed something, but from my understanding of what it said -- the number of slots is determined by the crafter, not the gear itself. Making/Buying materia won't be a ridiculous grueling task, and people will be rewarded for diligently seeking out good materia without the hassle of having to find super rare 5 slotted gear...

Again, unless I missed something. My understanding is that a Crafter with a Augmented Materia Melder can add up to 5 materia to any piece of gear as long as they themselves can actually MAKE the gear. That's not nearly as difficult or daunting as say, asking someone to hunt down a ridiculous NM that only a half full of people give a rat's ass about or something of the like -- I don't understand what you guys are arguing about.

[TheVedis]

A thought on NM gear...
maybe it can be slotted. BUT

this delves into the benefit/bonus of having crafting and combat and gathering jobs leveled together
since youll have to do it yourself

[Verence]

So your options become farm gil, or farm materia. I see absolutely no difference between the two, and the fact remains that there is potential, likely high, to put in hours of work and have absolutely nothing to show for it. I'd much prefer that extra slot = extra item. The crafters win, and we don't get to play a guessing-game with our wallets and with our expectations.

[TheVedis]

So your options become farm gil, or farm materia. I see absolutely no difference between the two, and the fact remains that there is potential, likely high, to put in hours of work and have absolutely nothing to show for it. I'd much prefer that extra slot = extra item. The crafters win, and we don't get to play a guessing-game with our wallets and with our expectations.

so what your saying is crafters arent allowed to win?
only those who do combat and farm?

[ViolentDjango]

So your options become farm gil, or farm materia. I see absolutely no difference between the two, and the fact remains that there is potential, likely high, to put in hours of work and have absolutely nothing to show for it. I'd much prefer that extra slot = extra item. The crafters win, and we don't get to play a guessing-game with our wallets and with our expectations.

I really have no idea what you're raging about...

so what your saying is crafters arent allowed to win?
only those who do combat and farm?

That's what it sounds like to me... and I have no respect for that. I'd like to see 5 slot gear be as good as, if not better than, high tier NM gear. With increasing difficulty in apply materia and the requirement of finding/making it, it seems like the work between organizing a solid party to hunt down ye ole legendary drop and farming/crafting your way to an equivalent piece is a fair comparison. Just like how they had NM and BCNM equivalents of certain popular pieces in FFXI -- Empress Hairpin vs. Emperor Hairpin. Same piece, different origins.

And if you're tenacious enough to do both, you SHOULD be a cut above the rest.

[Perrin_Aybarra]

So your options become farm gil, or farm materia. I see absolutely no difference between the two, and the fact remains that there is potential, likely high, to put in hours of work and have absolutely nothing to show for it. I'd much prefer that extra slot = extra item. The crafters win, and we don't get to play a guessing-game with our wallets and with our expectations.

but there is 0 risk with your suggestion everyone will be able to easyly get 5 slots and the crafters will just be making tons of gils and the prices will be sky high (because it will be expected and forced on people to have 5 materias slotted per gears so the crafters won't have trouble selling at high prices since you got to use the same gear to make 5 slots, so you'll NEED to purchase 6x the gear). Adding more than 1 slot is a dark forbidden materia technique w/e they call it. The attraction of upgrading your gears with 5 slots is great but it comes at a risk of losing it in the process. I like this risk vs. reward approach, there should be more of it in the game.

Having 3-5 materia in your gear will be rarer and will hold more prestige. The fact that not everyone will be willing to risk their gear for it will/should stabilize the market so the prices of gears aren't riddiculously high.