BRD/MCH look here

[Rivez]

"Concerning the machinist, his role is similar to the bard, it's a support for the other members of the team. So, compared to other pure DPS jobs like monk or ninja, of course its DPS will be lower since they have different roles. With the upcoming release of Alexander next week, we'll be very happy to receive feedback from the players."


That's nice and all but you can do everything in the game without them. Our guild summoner has used his revive more than our bards ever needed to use tp/mp recovery.

So shouldn't the summoners revive mean they get support so should be as weak as us?

The only time healers run out of mp is with reviving so getting the summoner to do it instead is actually better at giving healers more potential mp than the archers mp song itself.

[Wavaryen]

"snip

That is what I am thinking. Like this makes no sense at all. No wonder people are confused, I would argue that +crit buffs, and heck even ninja giving tp to people without hurting their own dps. (mind you ninja thing is a lot weaker.) is support in its nature.


Also, about the comment "he is new here he does not know" You know most of the bards I talked to felt the same way as I did? So it has nothing to do with being "new" as it does trying to figure out wtf the devs are thinking. As it feels like with class changes, and balance the left hand does not know what the right hand is doing. The players don't know that is for sure.

[xzeroikgre]

Thank you, that is all I was asking for. Since I was told developers don't see bard as support. They are just pure dps. I am glad at least someone showed me something. As I was even searching for it. I guess I suck at finding things.

No problem, I don't mind being a support, is why I picked bard as my main class. Numbers of dps don't really matter to me much at all in the grand scheme of things, I just feel the WM play style is a pretty jarring change after spending so long playing the game without it. It's gonna take time to adjust to it is all, still would have rather preferred another utility song for the party versus WM but it's whateves, still not gonna give up my main no matter how this roller coaster ends, ><.

[Wavaryen]

No problem, I don't mind being a support, is why I picked bard as my main class. Numbers of dps don't really matter to me much at all in the grand scheme of things, I just feel the WM play style is a pretty jarring change after spending so long playing the game without it. It's gonna take time to adjust to it is all, still would have rather preferred another utility song for the party versus WM but it's whateves, still not gonna give up my main no matter how this roller coaster ends, ><.

I like the thought of support that is why I picked it also. The play style is fun, and when I give groups mana or TP i feel that that extra tp andmana i give overall adds to my own dps. I just thought that dps matters because that is what we bring as a class as well. The times we don't need to play our songs, we should be doing great dps. Thanks again for showing me some proof, as people keep saying all sorts of things.

[Torunya]

It's not a "flat out 10% increase."
It also does not solve the problem of people who don't want to use a caster stance at all having the majority of their 50-60 abilities being tied to the caster stance, making the expansion less enjoyable for them than other jobs. I am not one of those people, but I sympathize, especially considering how much I hate the MNK changes and how they literally make the job less enjoyable.

If anyone is playing Machinist and don't like the job, then why in the world are they not playing another job? There are different jobs because of this reason, is it not? I also want to emphasize that there is a huge difference between "not liking something" and "being bad at something", as my main concern for MCH/BRD is that the majority of complaints rise from players who don't play the job correctly.

Not a jab at anyone, it's just what I'm worried about since I really like Machinist at the moment.

[xzeroikgre]

snip

Unless you don't have a smn in your group. Or if the heals was dps'ing and the tank unexpectedly dies(had this happen before where i had to kite adds and ballad the pld and heals to get both their mp's up after the pld face planted to stop a wipe). Is Tp/Mp song necessary? No, but on the occasions you do need it, it is the deciding factor on whether or not your group will wipe. There's more to bard than just how much dps you can do, knowing when to use songs, how to kite things, target locking while dodging so you don't lose AA's, snap aggro'ing adds off a healer, and dealing with extra mechanics cause you are the "mobile" dps is just some of the stuff that separates a good bard from a "mash all the buttons while running in circles" bard.

[Astral145]

Lets be honest how often do BRD's use there TP/MP songs? You don't even need the songs in 90+% of all the content in the game. And when they do use the songs they get a 15% decrease in damage. Shouldn't that be enough? Why do the devs feel they must also have a -7 reduction in weapon damage (compared to melee's weapon damage)? It's like BRDs and MCHs are being punished 100% of the time for simply playing the job. You don't need the songs for solo content and dungeons. You only need to use the songs 5% to 10% of the time in raids and that's only if they are long dragged out fights and/or the healers are constantly raising people.

Instead they should make it to where if you want comparable damage to BLM and SMN you use GB/WM and in doing so you can not use your songs. If you need to use the songs then you lose GB/WM and also take a 15% reduction on damage. That's a total of 45% in damage loss when you go into support mode. I think that would be fare enough.

[Jeckyl_Tesla]

ITT: People who do heavily nerfed content and then wonder why they don't need to use BRD songs.

[ruskie]

ITT: People who do heavily nerfed content and then wonder why they don't need to use BRD songs.

Use TP/MP songs often myself. Foe not much(since no casters - though I do support the sch in dpsing here and there).

You know what really annoys me? casters get swift cast, mch gets rapid fire... bards get... nothing to mitigate a move and cast situation - unless we keep hold of our procs/ogcds all the time - which would be a net loss one way or another. I'm basically reliant on fey wind to be able to move and cast close to effectively - and even that can mess up an iron jaws recast timer - also did anyone notice that for saving 100 tp we lose 40 potency or so(reapply both wind and venom each has an upfront potency). Though it does give you leway to reapply dots, pop cds and then clip the dots with the new ones.

[kalasnikov]

Minuet buff still left the main gripe. Bard becoming a bowmage. Thanks a lot se, you took the enjoyment out of class that i used 2 years through coils and savage.

lowest dps with mobility and was good enough for me, not happy with lowest dps and rooted to the ground.