BRD/MCH look here

[Ryaz]

That is cos... your group is bad, unfortunately.

When MCH/BRD becomes #1 DPS in your group you shouldn't even be happy.

First I meant T1. And we cleared the content easily. Not sure how you can consider that "bad". I was quite happy with what we accomplished and we did it without even getting near the enrage timer. People always quote numbers from test dummies and act like that's the end all be all of dungeon fights. Dungeons and raids are a whole different animal. You don't keep up perfect rotations in a dungeon. You don't have every cooldown line up perfectly. You don't get every cast off. It all comes down to how well you play the mechanics while keep as much DPS as possible on the target. Some fights are better for different classes than others.

I'd much rather have someone with lower dps who is skilled and can clear content than someone with massive dps who constantly screws up mechanics. That's something that so many people forget. It's all about numbers.

[Ooshima]

First I meant T1. And we cleared the content easily. Not sure how you can consider that "bad". I was quite happy with what we accomplished and we did it without even getting near the enrage timer. People always quote numbers from test dummies and act like that's the end all be all of dungeon fights. Dungeons and raids are a whole different animal. You don't keep up perfect rotations in a dungeon. You don't have every cooldown line up perfectly. You don't get every cast off. It all comes down to how well you play the mechanics while keep as much DPS as possible on the target. Some fights are better for different classes than others.

I'd much rather have someone with lower dps who is skilled and can clear content than someone with massive dps who constantly screws up mechanics. That's something that so many people forget. It's all about numbers.

That is still not excusable for your melees to perform under you. Every decent groups that I know have their MNK/NIN at the top of the DPS list. That is a fact, if you are outperforming them then they are bad. And yes DPS is about numbers, if not why are you DPS? The D for DPS stands for Damage, lol. Please don't have delusions about that.

Turn 1 of BCoB with current gear + Echo or whether it is the first floor of Alexander, that's crap easy - another fact. You can even clear it with melees who had IL180 gear but dish out FCoB and yesteryear level of DPS, but what's so happy with that? When harder raids like Alex Savage comes you will then realize that these are the people dragging your whole group down. So what if they can deal with mechanics? I can deal with mechanics all day but don't deal a single DPS and that won't bring a clear to the table.

Your DPS should be people who can deal the damage and at the same time deal with the mechanics.

[LunarEmerald]

If any dps sans machnist is being beaten by a bard then they aren't playing their job well. They shit all over us in dps.

[Obysuca]

So the question is if the damage increase on weaponskills equal the loss of potency of these abilities? I'll wait to pass judgement on the changes till I see what a good MCH/BRD can do, but I'm skeptical...

Well, I can tell you this, I went from doing about 4.3k ricochet's(single target on a boss) to barely even breaking 1k :/ Certain bosses I could pretty much 1 shot the adds, or clear out 3/4 of the adds solo on fractal boss before the other dps killed the 4th, now it seems I can only kill about 1 1/2 of them before the other dps is helping me down mine. Seems mch went from great burst damage to "meh, needs some help on an add". Pre-"fix", me and a fc member (nin), could clear fractal/neverreap in just under 30 minutes, now it's taking us about 38-40 after the "fix".

I'm not saying mch didn't need to be fixed some, but to me, this feels more like a nerf, while trying to trick us into thinking the bonus 10% on GB was a buff

[TrailArnizay]

MCH's in Alex with GB on at all times are saying they're noticing large increase in their numbers, 900+ parses. So take that as you will.

[nbiscuitz]

I still don't like the skill due to play style. the Instant use is a good change, but I don't like weapon skill cast time, but I still use it as a opening burst. If they really want to change bard to bowmage, they should put this skill at level 20 or something, not 52. The point is that all jobs gets new skills and buffs that extends their capability, but only bards(and mch) required to pay a price, why?

If they think we are a support, the stance should take away our support songs to increase our dps. Just like WAR get deliverance which increased dps but didn't take away anything at all.

[xXRaineXx]

That is cos... your group is bad, unfortunately.

When MCH/BRD becomes #1 DPS in your group you shouldn't even be happy.

Haha, so true. When you look at the numbers and you see yourself as a BRD at top... 'Um,,, guys,,, DPS is low,,, yeah,,,'.

If all classes are played efficiently and I mean 'efficiently' not 'perfectly', it is practically impossible for BRD's to over-dps. Only class they may surpass is a BLM whose forced to do to mechanics.

[eexxooddiiaa]

Sry for my bad eng but i thing main problem with MCH is this 50% main dmg ability chanse cant after use all u cd stay press split shot and say myself please god let me use next shot.50% of all figh is press split shot and w8ing for next shot, same time other jobs + healer with stone 3 can beat me and SE say this dps job its vry strange.SE please first play job after this talk,playing and simulation programs is 2 vry diferent things.

[RiceisNice]

....

No matter how you look at it (whether you brand BRD/MCH as "support dps" or not), it's still at the fault of melee if they're being outdone by a BRD/MCH at this state of the game, esp if it's consistently.

"Someone with lower dps who is skilled" versus "can clear content" is a massive oxymoron. A skilled person can do both mechanics and push out numbers. People who slack on their role as a dps is espesically evident even in echo'd FCoB or primal ponies (which is annoying to all hell). And I mean to the point that they're doing less than darklight BiS...

[Ryaz]

It was A1. The reason why I beat the Ninja was because of the strat we used, not because of him being a bad player. Only one add needs to die under the light beam, so when they popped, he and I would kill the adds while we let our two BLMs, who were lowered geared than us, go to town on the bosses because them moving was an even bigger hit to their DPS. The Ninja had to run around to get the add and drag it to the beam. I was able to just stand at the beam, keep hitting the boss until the adds popped and then instantly switched to shoot them and bring them to me. Not to mention after their slam attack, I was able to get back on them quicker. In that situation, being ranged was a big advantage.

Again, mechanics play a big part in overall dps score, more than anything else. I have no doubt he would have beaten me handily on a stationary target that doesn't do anything. But dungeons hardly work out that way. Mechanics will always cause major variations and favor some classes over others.