Dat Fell Cleave tho...

[Calib0s]

I'm still seeing 850-870 DPS on my DRK on a dummy, no consumables or party buffs. This is even with the parser under-representing DRK DOTs - it only records 6 ticks of scourge, and is extremely spotty at picking up Salted Earth. I run dry on TP around 2:10.

In the same circumstances and gear, my WAR is pulling about 950 DPS.

I've seen WAR parses at 1k+, but they were all with party buffs and consumables / starting the parse at 5 stacks of Abandon.

[Argyle_Darkheart]

I don't think you get what he's saying, at all.

There's nothing to "get." Explain to me, mathematically, how the effect of the bug fix operates differently than how I outlined.

My point is that you're spending just as much MP as you were before the bug fix; you're just getting less potency out of it. It's not like we could use Dark Arts more than we can now. Saying we "saved MP" is the same as saying we "gained potency." Nothing either of you has said is in disagreement with, or in addition to, what I outlined.

[Skypirate]

I Love Fell cleave. That Said I Love Decimate even more. I Just wonder if I can cast off 2 Over powers in the time It takes me to finish my animation for Decimate....

[Calib0s]

The Dark Arts dupe allowed you to get a free DA Dark Passenger (+100 potency) every 30 seconds, and a free DA Souleater (+120 potency) every 60 seconds. So, 320 (368 with Darkside) potency every 60 seconds ideally, or about 5.33 (6.13) potency per second. Without factoring in Blood Weapon or Storm's Eye/Dancing Edge, and only using Delirium (i.e. this is a low estimate), DRK is dealing about 188.5 potency per second. Adding Dark Arts dupe would bring it to about 194.63 potency per second. Subtracting 6.13 potency per second from there is about a 3.15% loss.

This is exactly correct.

[Hyunckel]

Here are two links where the guys slap the target dummies around.

DRK
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hXSARA33N3E

WAR
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XqplRY7URUA

After two minutes of constant beating on the targeting dummy the DRK is pretty much out of TP, and considering the low amount of time it's also considered a burst and would put the DRK at most 700 dps after three minutes where as the WAR can keep going for another few minutes. So that's a 100 dps difference between a burst DRK and a sustained WAR

Don't forget that was with double Dark Arts procs (Soul Eater into Carve n Spit IIRC)

I'm at about 750-760 ish myself on dummy, and yeah, after 2min our TP is pretty gone ... (DRK here) <- With ilv180 sword

It's really sickening my DRK soul to see WAR able to continue pushing at 3min30 at 1000 DPS and still sitting at 650 TP LAWL balanced ^^

What where they thinking, giving us both MAR & GLD as cross class skills...? WTB Lancer cross class skills >_< Blood for Blood, Keen Flurry, Invigorate anyone?

I've done several 10-15 minute parses on full-STR WAR and I'm averaging about 920-930 DPS (no party, no food, no potion).

The DRK parse is outdated, unfortunately, but they shouldn't have fallen much, contrary to what Nektulos claims. With Storm's Eye/Dancing Edge, they should be right there with WAR, if not beating it (TP issues aside).

10-15 min T_T

Unfortunately, it's not only about the TP. You can't just spam that Dart Arts Soul Eater combo, cause you'll be oom before the 2 min mark lol. And you don't use Carve and Spit for the MP regen either, you use it DA'd to do more damage...
Sure, there is Blood Price to regenerate some MP... But even with hard hitting boss aoes (since we're off tanking) or eating Blinding Blades in the case of Ravana EX... It doesn't regen much lol.

There is Sole Survivor (on Spirit Gana for ex) but yeah, that's situationnal, also, if the target dies during the 1.5sec it takes to ACTUALLY apply the debuff, you lose the cooldown and get nada lol

Anyway... Point is... DRK gets MP starved or does crappy DPS after 2 min, then get TP starved at the 3 min mark. So yeah....

[tremor24]

I don't think you get what he's saying, at all.

Pre bug fix I could hold around 900 DPS on a dummy for a 2 minute and 20 second duration, seeing as that is exactly how long my TP lasts me. Obviously it fluctuate a bit, but that's the easy average. (Pretty sure you yourself said you've seen 910)

After the bug fix, I can only hold about 800. This is a full STR Drk with a Hive claymore.

A lot of people are saying it was a 100 DPS loss for a reason. The MP requirement for DA may have changed, but that doesn't mean MP management remained untouched. Using an ability such as passenger or c&s under the effect of a Dark Arts, along with something else like Souleater saved you a LOT of MP. It saved you an entire second Dark Arts worth.

And when you can save MP, you can Dark Arts more often.



Your War is seriously underplaying his job then.

And as far as Pld DPS goes, I know a Pld who can hold 680 with only a 154 ilvl. The way I see it, a well played Pld may out DPS a Drk as well, especially in fights where Goring Blade will tick it's full duration.

After the bug fix I am getting 895 average with food/pot/party and no storm's eye as I have stated before. This is also consistent with what is expected after the fix and similar to what others are getting with these conditions. I cannot explain how you lost 100 dps (maybe clipping abilities since you shouldn't make it much past 2:10 without being flat on TP), but others are seeing similar numbers. You should still be using Dark Passenger but without Dark Arts.

As for PLD, I able to consistently get 840 under the same conditions and I'm not sure that it is possible to get much higher than that (on a dummy obviously until TP dry) since the rotations is very simple just make sure to get two Goring Blades under each Fight or Flight.

[Kiteless]

I did some math hammering myself, Argyle is right.

That said, it doesn't much to change the fact that DRK is suffering both in terms of DPS output and the sustainability of it, but it's nice to know that the removal of Double DA wasn't as large a stealth nerf as I had originally thought. It is worth noting that the removal of Double DA did have the effect of making our non-offensive off cooldowns worse, since we can't power those up for free anymore.

[Srab]

for real .. dummy dont prove anything

[Kiteless]

for real .. dummy dont prove anything

No, the dummy certainly does not. But, a WAR's skills are much simpler to manage effectively without tunnel-visioning. And due to the large amount of skills DRK has to constantly be activating (and that GOD DAMN GROUND TARGETTING of Salted Earth), a DRKs output is far more likely to suffer from a stressful encounter than any WAR's would.

So while you might make the case that dummies might not make the best indicator of actual damage efficiency, real combat is going to have a much worse effect on DRK than it will the other tanking classes.

Which is fine, for the most part. Part of what attracts me to DRK over the other tanks is the higher level of skill needed for optimal application. The problem is that we're not even on par for all that, we're considerably worse.

[Srab]

Haven't seen a PLD reaching the same numbers as a WAR has no. I've seen parses where the OT PLD is slightly ahead of the MT WAR on Ravana.

If you could show me some numbers a PLD can do I would be happy to look at them.

http://puu.sh/iPHgT/973e07c4bb.png
^ PLD main tank and still doing 650+ dps on ravana and can do more than 700 when playing OT
PLD cant beat WAR dps but can be close with 40-50 dps