Please consider changing Gauss Barrel/Wanderer's Minuet

[EdwinLi]

Please go away with your "It's too late to fix it", they can and should fix the mess they've made.

WM could be made into an entirely new ability that isn't a song if they must, problem solved, we do extra damage and we don't have to learn an entire new class that's broken as shit.

The mess started from the community in the first place because people wanted Bard to rival the other DPS while still being Mobile and Range.

The other DPS had higher DPS but they had a risk factor that Bard avoided due to their gameplay style.

Melee DPS risk was being in close range to enemies and bosses for their DPS.

Casters DPS risked standing still to attack in exchange for their DPS.

Bard had neither these risk factors so their balance was their lower DPS.

What people wanted was for Bard to be a DPS Job that can perform the equal amount of DPS of a Melee DPS and Caster DPS without the risk of melee range and the risk of standing still but that would cause Bard to be too OP.

People wanted Bard to become equal to the other DPS but hardly did people consider what would be sacrificed for that Increase DPS.

[Lyaha]

People wanted Bard to become equal to the other DPS but hardly did people consider what would be sacrificed for that Increase DPS.

I sure as hell wasn't asking for it, was doing fine DPS before all these idiotic changes, while casters had to stop what they were doing to move out of the way, I could put in some extra attacks on the more movement heavy bosses. Reason why I picked a bloody bard.

[IfritReborn]

The mess started from the community in the first place because people wanted Bard to rival the other DPS while still being Mobile and Range.

The other DPS had higher DPS but they had a risk factor that Bard avoided due to their gameplay style.

Melee DPS risk was being in close range to enemies and bosses for their DPS.

Casters DPS risked standing still to attack in exchange for their DPS.

Bard had neither these risk factors so their balance was their lower DPS.

What people wanted was for Bard to be a DPS Job that can perform the equal amount of DPS of a Melee DPS and Caster DPS without the risk of melee range and the risk of standing still but that would cause Bard to be too OP.

People wanted Bard to become equal to the other DPS but hardly did people consider what would be sacrificed for that Increase DPS.

I'm not sure how to follow this. When Bards provided MP/TP regen it was a hit on their DPS.
When MCH provide MP/TP regen not only is it a hit on their DPS but they lose a major DPS cooldown.
And what you're saying is that they should do low DPS because they're lolmobile and even LOWER DPS when providing MP/TP?

Sorry, but when MCH and BRD are doing 800+ without providing MP/TP and EVERYONE else is doing 1000+ there is a problem.

[EdwinLi]

I'm not sure how to follow this. When Bards provided MP/TP regen it was a hit on their DPS.
When MCH provide MP/TP regen not only is it a hit on their DPS but they lose a major DPS cooldown.
And what you're saying is that they should do low DPS because they're lolmobile and even LOWER DPS when providing MP/TP?

Sorry, but when MCH and BRD are doing 800+ without providing MP/TP and EVERYONE else is doing 1000+ there is a problem.

I'm not including the factor that BRD and MCH lose their damage by activating their support abilities.

I'm using the factor that both BRD and MCH have the lowest damage of the game even with their TP and MP off.

There low DPS is mostly from how BRD and MCH obtain the lowest Damage from their weapons.

BRD/MCH only gets 65 damage at ilvl 190 weapons

All other Jobs obtains 72 damage from ilvl 190 weapons

However, this is the price Bards pay for being the mobile DPS since it prevents Bard from outshine the other DPS by perform equal or more DPS than the other DPS without the risk the other DPS must face.

After all bards only risk is their low DPS beyond that the Bard is almost the Ideal DPS Job being fully mobile and can attack from close to long range without any risks to their HP.

[Lewtskie]

However, this is the price Bards pay for being the mobile DPS since it prevents Bard from outshine the other DPS by perform equal or more DPS than the other DPS without the risk the other DPS must face.

After all bards only risk is their low DPS beyond that the Bard is almost the Ideal DPS Job being fully mobile and can attack from close to long range without any risks to their HP.

Something that always bothered me. True that we have an advantage in mobility, but that advantage is purely in context that other jobs have combos and flanking maneuvers that they must do in order to optimize their output. Bards don't even have anything of the sort because, obviously, that'd be unbalanced.

That said up until now Bards have not seen a weaponskill even surpass 150 potency within their kit except Misery's End, which only comes at the final stretch. So seeing as we don't see near as potent WS as other jobs nor any abilities that lower defense types such as in DRGs kit we'd never match them in terms of dmg anyway, so why do we have to suffer lower DMG on our weapons?

[Welsper59]

The mess started from the community in the first place because people wanted Bard to rival the other DPS while still being Mobile and Range.

The other DPS had higher DPS but they had a risk factor that Bard avoided due to their gameplay style.

Melee DPS risk was being in close range to enemies and bosses for their DPS.

Casters DPS risked standing still to attack in exchange for their DPS.

Bard had neither these risk factors so their balance was their lower DPS.

What people wanted was for Bard to be a DPS Job that can perform the equal amount of DPS of a Melee DPS and Caster DPS without the risk of melee range and the risk of standing still but that would cause Bard to be too OP.

People wanted Bard to become equal to the other DPS but hardly did people consider what would be sacrificed for that Increase DPS.

This actually wasn't really a thing. A couple people might have QQ'd about always performing under the other DPS, but generally speaking, it wasn't a prominent complaint. I think most people can understand the need to have slightly less DPS output because of how BRD operates. Trading for mobility with a little less overall output. It's a trade that a lot of people accepted when they picked the job.

The thing that raises some flags though is that, as time goes on, the perks of BRD (party utility) becomes less and less needed. Given that there is no such thing as a "support" role, they will NEVER give BRD utility anything worth using as often as the current songs. With the fact that other jobs are gaining abilities that diminish the need for a BRD, the perspective of "support DPS" becomes less reasonable to keep them sub-par by equal standing.

If BRD could put out the ~1200 DPS that other jobs can with current WM, then you probably won't see as many complaints about being a turret. It's the fact that BRD has the perspective of a "must never be top potential DPS" development/practice, combined with the changes for utility to other jobs, that makes BRD feel even worse than it should. I mean, what essentially is happening is that they have the mindset that BRD should be less DPS because they're mobile. So they want to remove the mobility but leave the under performance, as proof that it is intended due to "not wanting to increase damage significantly" statement by Yoshi-P, despite the significantly lower output. They also want to keep the songs at such a large detriment to damage because of party utility, despite its necessity being diminished as time goes on due to other jobs having similar types of self/party buffs without any detriment to their role.

Is BRD utility mandatory for everything? Never... not even close. Is it mandatory for general raiding? Nope. Mandatory for progression raiding? Maybe, won't know until Alexander Savage is released... I highly doubt it is needed for regular. Maybe at the very least until it becomes farm status. If they're performing with such a huge disparity as they do now, even after the change, you may be better off with a NIN, DRG, or other DPS though.