Oh, so FFXIV is pay-to-win? That's... stupid.

[Roth_Trailfinder]

So, if you sell more stuff and make more gil than someone with just 2 retainers, then spend said gil on raid carries, does that make it P2W? In a round about way?

Paying RL money for any in game advantage is Pay to Win. Whether it is new gear, another means of acquiring otherwise difficult to get gear, buying gil to pay someone for a carry ... all examples of pay to win.

Paying RL money (on a monthly basis no less!) for the advantage of more storage space, more trips to the RNG hoping for something good, and more selling room *is* paying RL money for an advantage over those who are not paying. THAT makes paying for extra retainers pay to win.

What someone does with the stuff Retainers bring back is the "win". Other than being endorsed by SE rather than a bannable offense, it is no different than buying gil. What someone does with the gil they get from their retainer/bannable purchase is the "win" in pay to win.

[Zorlinta]

What someone does with the gil they get from their retainer/bannable purchase is the "win" in pay to win.

Yeah pay to win with the "Sea Cucumber" that my new extra retainer bring today on the quick venture, Eorza fear me now!!!

[Shadowsun]

I got all 8 retainers, leveling up the 4 new ones.

So much materials, ventures are unlimited, its crazy how many mats im getting.<

Feels Pay2Win unfortunately.

[Jynx]

Storage? Meh who cares.

Ventures are crazy imbalanced in terms of economical power.

[Radial]

Yeah pay to win with the "Sea Cucumber" that my new extra retainer bring today on the quick venture, Eorza fear me now!!!

More like get 3 fat cats out of 8 possible ventures sell for a few million apiece, repeat tommorow.

[Mikedizzy]

I ask every person who plays this games to "ball park" how much frigging money they have spent on this game. I have spent easily over $600 dollars so far and that is estimating conservatively and really quickly. And they are going to ask me for more money to store the crap that is in the game? I will concede the fact that I know I have stuff on my retainers that I don't "need" but want for "later" if I so choose to. so when HW's launched I ran out of room instantly and I don't want to sacrifice game play time to "F-around" my retainers I just want to play the game I am paying for. So to not waste time I bought two more retainers in the hopes that I will down the line consolidate my 6 retainers down to where I don't need to pay for any...I probably never will though...I just think I give them enough money to warrant free retainer space beyond the two they give us...I have paid my money and I am sure many others have as well.

[keyburz]

You obviously dont know what pay to win is. Go look at maplestory. I used to play that. You literally pay irl money to get in game money. You pay irl money to buy scrolls to put on your gear (think of it like materia that ignores all materia slot limitations) and can sell the scrolls to other people for in game money. You pay irl money to do the equivalent of the cactpot but for unobtainable gear in any other method but it's version of cactpot. You pay irl money to get double experiance rates for a couple hours. You pay irl money to buy cosmetic gear that you can sell to other people ( and all that cosmetic gear has a 30 day time limit on it).

THAT is pay to win. This is not. Your overreacting attitude isnt helping anyone, in fact its hurting. What is your goal here, to turn people away from the game? Get people on your "pay2win" bandwagon? Sure lets just go all out then and make this a shitty game!

[keyburz]

I'm not even done! In maplestory (check this out) you pay IRL money... to buy tickets to run certain dungeons! And you unlock them only temporarily! You pay irl money to run a shop in the marketplace! You pay irl money to buy crafting items to craft the next tier gear set! Oh what a great system we have!! You pay irl money to reset your stat points, to reset your skill point, to own a pet, and to feed that pet. You pay irl money for INSTANT LEVEL UP SCROLLS.

Has square enix done any of these disgusting things I have listed? If so please tell me

[Roth_Trailfinder]

While it is more roundabout, paying money above and beyond the subscription for more retainers does indeed (with some work) produce extra in game money. For that matter .. isn't paying for more retainers "pay irl money to run a shop in the marketplace!" ? You just have to give the retainer something to sell ...

While it is not as egregious, in-your-face as maple story (for that matter, for any high revenue "free to play" game) that only makes it a difference in degree, not a difference in kind. You pay money for whatever advantage you sought in maple story (because, you know, you don't *need* to spend that cash and run that dungeon, you can farm up game money yourself without buying it, and so on) and you can pay money here for the advantages that extra retainers bring.

[Zorlinta]

There is no extra advantage got with extra retainers that cannot be achieved without paying for them. You need to sell 80 items, instead use the 8 retainers, just sell 20 items, wait to those get sold and then sell the next batch. There is just "time" and commodity, but if for you thats pay to win, then ok.

Edit: Anyway if you talk about the heavensward expansion as P2W it is undoubtly.