When would you take DRK over PLD or WAR?

[Reynhart]

If a raid can't rely on the DRK to parry the right move or have reprisal ready, then how can they depend on the PLD to use their passive defense to block?

Bulwark : Block rate +60%
Dark Dance : Parry rate +30%

[Morcavious]

Bulwark : Block rate +60%
Dark Dance : Parry rate +30%

And we're completely ignoring the uptime difference as well as the Dark Arts effect? That's still a 20% chance to avoid an auto attack.

[Seku]

And we're completely ignoring the uptime difference as well as the Dark Arts effect? That's still a 20% chance to avoid an auto attack.

You could pair it with darkside buffed by DA to blind the target too...to further increase your chance of dodging...since well...I don't see DRK using as much MP after initial hate is gained and worked up.

But the problem with drk isn't it's ability to take a hit or live. It's the fact it lacks originality. It has the same problem DRG had all through out 2.0. That is DRG was a good DPS, could put out the numbers and ect, but it didn't bring anything to the group setting. DRK suffers this to a minor degree as they could act as the replacement for MNK's int down and allow for another DPS to take it's place.....say another DRG with a 2nd critical rate up for another 20 seconds.

[Tila]

You could pair it with darkside buffed by DA to blind the target too...to further increase your chance of dodging...since well...I don't see DRK using as much MP after initial hate is gained and worked up.

But the problem with drk isn't it's ability to take a hit or live. It's the fact it lacks originality. It has the same problem DRG had all through out 2.0. That is DRG was a good DPS, could put out the numbers and ect, but it didn't bring anything to the group setting. DRK suffers this to a minor degree as they could act as the replacement for MNK's int down and allow for another DPS to take it's place.....say another DRG with a 2nd critical rate up for another 20 seconds.

many mobs are blind immune

[Reynhart]

And we're completely ignoring the uptime difference as well as the Dark Arts effect? That's still a 20% chance to avoid an auto attack.

There's a problem with uptime.
You can have Dark Dance 3 times more frequently, but if it doesn't proc on THE tankbuster, it's basically useless.
That's the same for the Evasion boost. If it procs, it's wonderful, but 20% is still far too low to be reliable.

You could pair it with darkside buffed by DA to blind the target too...to further increase your chance of dodging...since well...I don't see DRK using as much MP after initial hate is gained and worked up.

I don't think many bosses can be blinded.
If they can, then yes, Dark Arts+Dark Passenger+Dark Arts+Dark Dance is a very powerful tool...that you still need to set up at least 5 seconds before the hit, eat almost half your MP pool, and requires Darkside too.
When a PLD can just Sheltron or a WAR can just Inner Beast

[Seku]

There's a problem with uptime.
You can have Dark Dance 3 times more frequently, but if it doesn't proc on THE tankbuster, it's basically useless.
That's the same for the Evasion boost. If it procs, it's wonderful, but 20% is still far too low to be reliable.

I don't think many bosses can be blinded.
If they can, then yes, Dark Arts+Dark Passenger+Dark Arts+Dark Dance is a very powerful tool...that you still need to set up at least 5 seconds before the hit, eat almost half your MP pool, and requires Darkside too.
When a PLD can just Sheltron or a WAR can just Inner Beast

For the time being. but maybe Alexander mobs will be open to blind. I know I've been doing that in dungeons for a while...but...you're right. ;.; Dungeons are not raids.

[Reynhart]

The answer today is the same as yesterday, its called Dark mind.

Does Dark Mind really makes the difference ?
Let's put aside every pure physical skill and compare WAR and DRK.
Shadow Skin mitigates every damage by 20% every 90s -> Inner Beast does the same, more often. Not for the same duration, true, but we don't know for now if we'll be free of tankbusters-based fight in the future.
Shadow Wall mitigates every damage by 30% every 180s -> Vengeance does the same, more often and for longer duration
Dark Mind mitigates magical damage by 30% (With Dark Arts) every 60s -> WAR can easily pop Inner Beast each time DRK has either Shadow Skin or Shadow Wall. It's only 20% but WAR can add Thrill Of Battle once every two Dark Mind to increase its eHP and heal at the same time.

Add to that that WAR can put a constant debuff reducing all damage by 10% while DRK need to parry before...which is useless on a magic-focused foe.

[Giantbane]

WAR can add Thrill Of Battle once every two Dark Mind to increase its eHP and heal at the same time.

for all intents and purposes, thrill of battle, when paired with convalescence is exactly the same as shadowskin/rampart in terms of mitigation. It's only slightly less effective in terms of HP restored. But as raids will tend to err on the side of over healing the MT, it's a trivial difference.

[Hundred]

Does Dark Mind really makes the difference ?

It naturally does. 30% magical for 10s, every 60s. Vs a Block against physical, every 30s.
Different skills as they cater to different damage types in different ways, but are guaranteed mitigation options against their respective damage type either way.

.

Let's put aside every pure physical skill and compare WAR and DRK.

Stopping you right there.


We're going to look at Dark and Paladin.
Rampart and Shadowskin are the exact same skill.

The difference between Sentinel & Shadow skin is that Sentinel is 40% to Shadow Walls 30%

Dark dance vs Bull wark. Block is more powerful mitigation then Parry, Bullwark increases the block rate substantially. Magical attacks cannot be blocked or parried, however magical attacks can be evaded. Dark Dance offers minor defense against magical where Bullwark does not, while Bullwark is good at covering physical hits. Dark dance has a third of the cool down. Both skills are at their most consistent against adds.

Str down vs Int down. A wash, however there are currently no other producers of Str down, so Pld is the sole contributor of the effect in the game when it is desired.


Shell tron vs Dark Mind: Shelltron has half the cooldown, but is good for a single hit which must be physical. Dark Mind is good for any magical hit within a 10s period.

Shield Swipe vs Reprisal - Both cut into the power of the opposition however relevant enemies ignore Pacification, Reprisal is not ignored.
Outside of TP demands, DRK is poised to do more damage Main tanking with their higher potency and off-gcd options.

If we like pre 52+ Drk has 1 more mitigation option via Dark Mind than Paladin. With shelltron the option spread is the same. It later delves into all 3 Tanks getting a sustain option (Clemency, Equilibrium, Sole Survivor), where Clemency has its cast time and costs a large sum of mana, Equilibrium has its cooldown and must choose health or tp to be restored. Sole Survivor requires something dies but requires Health & Mana both (albeit on a longer CD). Plunge gives means to sticking which the Drk lacks @ 50 compared to Tempered Will & Holmgang.

Like how many ways is there to put it.
Drk goes for Magical mitigation and add control, PLD excels at Physical mitigation and defensive team support. Except for Raw Intuition, War will basically mitigate anything indiscriminately, while providing some defensive support (Storms path) and some offensive.

Question is how potent everyone is at their job, and how valuable these things all are. Add controls value depends on how they set up Alexander. Magical Mitigation again depends on how they set that up.

To use a dungeon as an example given I heard someone speak of Dark Knights dealing with it. Sanctification and Unholy are magical, you can deal with this through Dark Mind, Shadow Wall and Rampart. Alternative you can DA Soul eater after the sanctification that will be about 3.2k and heal back 800-1100 non crit with general equipment depending on your set up reimbursing you for ~25-34% of the damage non-crit.

Now as I've mentioned before to someone the problem with Soul Eater is something 2.0 Warriors have also seen with storms path. Content will get stronger, and Soul eaters heal will be less relevant. You basically have to know the encounter well enough to have Soul eater set-up to respond after the hit which isn't as intuitive as popping CD's or inner beast.


I am fully aware of Drk requiring tuning and debugging but the bulk of their kit is conceptually sound. The reasons to take a Dark are fairly clear so long as their numbers are potent enough. Its odd for someone to make the first comparison Warrior when their defensive options are closest to Paladin. Darks ideally hold an advantage against magical opposition that the Paladins do not, and can handle adds better which may or may not be relevant in Alexander.