Any other Black Mages annoyed?

[HaroldSaxon]

Well you're welcome to disagree but that is how the game is already balanced. All the melee jobs have a higher single target DPS output than any of the ranged jobs. That is how the game has been balanced for over a year now. The effective damage output ends up being more equal due to their losing damage to mechanics but their base potencies are actually higher than casters and on a training dummy or largely stationary fights they will parse much higher. Clearly despite this balancing the ranged jobs haven't been rendered obsolete (though SMN very nearly was due to being eclipsed by BLM) so your fears are unwarranted.

Yet, it wasn't balanced last patch, for the reasons I went into in my last post. And Melee jobs don't end up having equal effective damage as casters - They out DPS casters at top end gameplay. And still do. BLM's lose damage to mechanics as much, if not more than a Melee does. Hell, fights are pretty much designed around Melee's nowadays. Why do you think the T13 world first ran duel Monk? Surely another Apocastasis/Eye for an Eye would have given more utility than the second monk? No because they did so much more DPS.

As for BLM, they have far more reliable burst than a SMN which makes them ideal for add phases or taking out targets quickly. SMNs being DOT based means they deal their damage in a fairly even spread over a long time which makes them less ideal for taking out priority targets. Even with the new SMN skills BLMs are still better at this unless we conveniently have Dreadwyrm Trance ready to use at the exact moment needed, and due to the aethertrail timer that's not easy to do unless we deliberately sacrifice damage prior to that.

To be honest you're falling into the exact trap I was describing in looking at the numbers and assuming this makes SMN instantly better. It doesn't. You're not thinking about the practical differences in how the jobs deal that damage.

And when you get into a practical scenario, where there are mechanics to deal with, its even worse. BLM's burst - well, honestly, its something other classes have. Dragoon and Summoner both have great burst from what i've seen - and as you are talking about having to have Dreadwyrm Trance ready to use at the exact moment; We need a decent remaining time of Enochian, DPS cooldowns (RS at 3 minutes, Ley Lines at 90 seconds, Convert at 3 minutes) - and we need to make sure we are in our Fire rotation.

You questioned whether I had taken into account a long list of problems contributing to the BLM issues. The implication was that I hadn't taken those into account and thus thought there was no problem. I wanted to be explicit in pointing out that I do not disagree on the subject of BLMs having issues. As for SMNs being kings... I never said they should be. I've already agreed that BLM has problems so clearly I'm agreeing with you that they need some attention.

I classify those all as teething problems. SE has made a lot of sweeping changes to many jobs and a lot of previous synergies have been lost. Further changes will be needed going forward to compensate for those losses. You class if not broken and those changes aren't bugs. They're just an oversight that needs to be accounted for.

Teething problems? They had nearly a year to test this. This is more than just "teething problems" or an "oversight". They are large, basic flaws with the entire design of BLM - which is sad because I actually like the core idea of the changes. The implementation has been lazy at best, negligent at worst.

I never said that you said those things. My post was quite clear in referring to previous posters in this thread making those comparisons.

Generally when you quote someone and say that, its fair to assume you was.

[OneWingedSora]

Except thats not true. They buffed black mage after completely destroying them in 2.1 by *fixing* astral fire and umbral ice tick rate.
If you dont think it was fine for blm to have more single target and aoe than smn in 2.0 then you shouldnt thing its fine for smn to currently have more single target and aoe than blm.

Except Summoners don't currently have higher ST damage than BLM.

SMN wasn't fine last patch. It had mana issues. Other than that, they were fine.

Fine is the keyword here. They were still outclassed by BLM even without the mana issues. Anyone who says otherwise haven't played BLM at the highest level. Even in fights that would be considered "movement heavy" by some such as T11, BLM was always ahead.

[Ayuhra]

I'm annoyed.

I'm new to the game so I've never been great at the class but in 2.x I at least felt comfortable. There weren't too many keybinds for my creepily small hands and the rotation felt responsive and straightforward.

3.0 feels uncomfortable to me (again, a new player not a super experienced theory-crafting raider) for a few reasons I can identify:

1. The AoE isn't as strong. I could help groups power through trash pulls with Flare before
2. Our hard-hitting rotation is balanced around two separate buffs on two separate timers being active at the same time. Should one of the timers end while you are in mid cast you lose that cast. This feels clunky to me.
3. Longcasting feels unresponsive. It's weird having a rotation where I make an attack that won't land until two seconds later (yes I make use of Swiftcast but I can't Swiftcast everything)
4. Longcasts combined with the small area of Ley Lines makes us even MORE immobile than before in an expansion that so far loves heavy movement. To me being punished for moving is fine... Having an entire rotation potentially destroyed for having to move is not.

It's not a matter of "get gud" to me. I can learn to be good. It is a matter of fun. Having only a small fraction of content where your class can perform as it is supposed to is not fun. I guess that once you learn a fight you can learn when you can safely sit still (in the last boss of Neverreap that's never) but what about progression raiders? What are they supposed to do?

Annoyed is the right word. Not enraged. Not gritting my teeth. Just annoyed. It's annoying.

[Kailii]

It's not a matter of "get gud" to me. I can learn to be good. It is a matter of fun. Having only a small fraction of content where your class can perform as it is supposed to is not fun. I guess that once you learn a fight you can learn when you can safely sit still (in the last boss of Neverreap that's never) but what about progression raiders? What are they supposed to do?

I think this is the key thing. Hardcore raiders will surive as always, but as was the case in WoW, often times balancing for hardcore raiders means saving them from themselves. BLM's numbers are more or less fine. But it's vastly different and more stressful from 2.0. I'm certainly not having fun with it, as everything is so damn stressful, I can't sit back and relax and enjoy myself anymore. And I think that's a shame.

[Aethel]

We are fine here, No issues to report.

[Aikaal]

Except Summoners don't currently have higher ST damage than BLM.



Fine is the keyword here. They were still outclassed by BLM even without the mana issues. Anyone who says otherwise haven't played BLM at the highest level. Even in fights that would be considered "movement heavy" by some such as T11, BLM was always ahead.

I was parsing 560 on smn on 2.5 on dummy but was one after 3mins.while my blm was averaging 550-560 dps higher with lucky rng. Many was the issue still.

[OneWingedSora]

I was parsing 560 on smn on 2.5 on dummy but was one after 3mins.while my blm was averaging 550-560 dps higher with lucky rng. Many was the issue still.

I was getting 570-600 on BLM. Maybe cause I was using crafted accessories idk. And that's not even factoring in Selene.

[SRTtoZ]

After spending a good amount of time at 60 and spending lots of time on the dummy, I'd say we should hopefully get some QoL improvements with the next patch. The only real problem are the way the buffs work because if ANY LITTLE THING goes wrong you get all screwed up. Once in a while you can fix that with Swiftcast to keep everything flowing okay but a few ground AOE's, a knockback or anything like that and you have to revert to the 2.0 rotation. Its just so damn clunky and its really not good design when a class gets 2 completely different rotations come end game depending on circumstances, both of which you need to ramp up to get going. They've heard the Bard cries already, hopefully they hear these. I just wish SE would get out of the stone age and set up a PTR so that crap like this would get dealt with before a major patch/expansion releases.

[Rongway]

In re: Leylines problems.
Leylines is fine. Side step as you pop it, and stand on the edge of the circle. AoE? You can prolly step to the other side of your haste circle. Don't stand in the middle of it and you'll be fine in many cases.

In re: Annoyed
A little bit. I don't feel like the Enochian rotation really pumps out as much damage in practice as it should in theory. Sure, I can go a whole minute without it falling off, by taking risks and managing my timings carefully...but even with Leylines, Sharpcast, and Swiftcast, the decreasing volume of Fire IV casts to accommodate the shortening timer in conjunction with all of the movement required in fights (the Lv60 Expert dungeons come to mind) means a much higher ice spells : fire spells ratio than before. Coupling this with having to cast Blizzard again to gain Umbral Ice back after a long dodge, or even a shorter dodge that started in the middle of Blizzard IV, compounds the probability of doing poor damage. Further, the ability to maintain Enochian is sometimes contingent on your party members understanding that you need them to leave the mob alive (and keep it in your line of sight) for another two seconds so you can cast Blizzard IV; otherwise, you go into the next phase stuck with Fire I.


As far as DD jobs go, I only play BLM, but I have to ask myself, are any of the other jobs stuck doing 1/3 the damage they should if a single second of the rotation goes wrong?

[Aikaal]

I was getting 570-600 on BLM. Maybe cause I was using crafted accessories idk. And that's not even factoring in Selene.

I always parse without party so I didn't get the 3% buff. Blm and smn were always 70 something behind melee jobs. Theres one time I got 592 die to ring props.