SMN Theorycraft and comparison to Blm

[Akiza]

Black Mage issue is they made thundercloud proc cause a dps loss all they need to do is increase Astral Fire and Umbra Ice to 15s

[hallena]

Black Mage issue is they made thundercloud proc cause a dps loss all they need to do is increase Astral Fire and Umbra Ice to 15s

That is one of their issue yes, not all of it

[OneWingedSora]

Black Mage has more synergy with the party than Summoner so Astrologian, Scholar and Dragoon increases Black Mage damge if they cooridiante Arrow and Balance for Astrologian, Scholar Selenes Haste buff and Dragoons Battle Litany and Black Mage single target is 50 dps higher than the Summoner.

Now that's just a load of nonsense.

First of all, Battle Litany affects the entire party, so Summoners would benefit from it as well. Second, Spell Speed now increase DoT damage so Fey Wind and Arrow are also a DPS boost to Summoners. And Lastly, when balancing classes, you don't take in factor how it's affected by other classes since party formation won't always consist of said classes.

[Sleigh]

Now that's just a load of nonsense.

First of all, Battle Litany affects the entire party, so Summoners would benefit from it as well. Second, Spell Speed now increase DoT damage so Fey Wind and Arrow are also a DPS boost to Summoners. And Lastly, when balancing classes, you don't take in factor how it's affected by other classes since party formation won't always consist of said classes.

Gotta correct a couple things here. Fey Wind and Arrow give increased attack speed, not SS, so they actually don't impact DoT damage values in any way.

The party formation when judging a class ... yes you don't want to make too many assumptions, but you also can't look at classes in a vacuum either. Easiest example is, in 2.5, Selene buffed BLM very well, and was shit on SMN. While you could say you shouldn't judge them by having Selene or not, it's also very realistic to say, in a good group, once the fight was known by your healers, you're getting Selene and BLM benefits from it and SMN doesn't.

In 3.0 though I think you're somewhat right; I consider most things completely not guaranteed anymore (NIN/DRG/AST/SCH/BRD, you could have only a couple, none, or every single one!). I do think looking at what a class gets from another class, vs what another class gets from that same class, is worth examining at least. Like, I do think AST does benefit BLM a lot more than AST benefits SMN, though the results of that wouldn't necessarily mean anything.

[OneWingedSora]

Gotta correct a couple things here. Fey Wind and Arrow give increased attack speed, not SS, so they actually don't impact DoT damage values in any way.

My bad on the Arrow/Fey Wind part. I thought they functioned the same way as Fey Glow/Light.

And yeah, I agree with the rest of the post as well. Realistically, most groups will have either AST, a SCH or maybe even both. So I guess Arrow and/or Fey wind are guaranteed.

[gorezilla1]

It's cool and all, but no one is talking about how once everyone has popped their CDs, a slick astro uses celestial opposition. Ugh, it has me so stoked for raid. Before we go into any content, my astro always sets a Balance card on spread. But he has to wait to get it for royal road. They he makes that Balance Aoe with royal road and then tosses a celestial opposition on it. I LOVE ASTRO!!!

[Zencurse]

Excellent work by Hai Hai. Though I currently believe that Black Mages can't be discounted in a raiding environment as those played at the top level will be able to deal with the mobility issues and the better synergy will increase output in the long run, I can see and more importantly respect his opinion on the matter of BLM vs. SMN, he clearly has a lot of knowledge on the subject and as someone who has mained BLM since day 1 and thus needs more guidance on SMN (in the scenario where playing SMN is 100% better) I would reference this guide any day.

Well done.

[Craiger]

This has to be tested in raids before we can make up any concrete judgement...

On paper it looks like SMN is way better, but as people learn to play BLM better, they might be able to get a lot out of BLM in raids.

I've said it many times since the Heavensward release, but why do so many players look at Bismarck/Ravana fights when comparing jobs?(not saying Hai Hai is) By that logic, MNK would never had been picked for raids in 2.0... Primals are completely different, and there's usually a lot more movement in them. Raids can easily screw over BLM ofc, but we should wait and see how much movement there actually are before discounting BLM for raids.

[Sunako]

but why do so many players look at Bismarck/Ravana fights when comparing jobs?

Indeed. Primals have always been movement heavy fights with lot of downtime. After all it does not matter how bad your dps in primals. I have been in some ravana groups where 7 players die then I pop healer limit and we still had more than enough dps kill the boss. Primals never been really high dps checks and never supposed 2 be balanced fights between other dps jobs. We should wait for the actual content before comparing jobs how they fit in the fight.

[HaroldSaxon]

Black Mage has more synergy with the party than Summoner so Astrologian, Scholar and Dragoon increases Black Mage damge if they cooridiante Arrow and Balance for Astrologian, Scholar Selenes Haste buff and Dragoons Battle Litany and Black Mage single target is 50 dps higher than the Summoner.

You do realize that Fey Glow got completely gutted for BLM? Because the "Haste" buff went from a spellspeed buff to a GCD reduction?

Battle Litany provides more for SMN than for BLM.

That said, if the mechanics of the fight allow, there isn't a reason to use a caster.