Any other Black Mages annoyed?

[Alberel]

SMN wasn't fine last patch. It had mana issues. Other than that, they were fine.

BLM's never had the highest single target damage, Monks did.

Also, have you taken into account the massive nerfs to spellspeed, fey glow (now fey wind), thundercloud and the impracticality of the combination of movement, enochain timers and 10 seconds of Astral Fire?

You shouldn't even be comparing to any of the melees as they're all balanced on entirely separate criteria. All of the melee jobs should have higher single target damage than the ranged jobs by virtue of being at greater risk in melee range and having to reposition a lot more. Any comparisons here are solely between BLM and SMN as caster dps. Between those two BLMs had the highest single target and AOE damage throughout the latter half of the 2.x patch cycle and the cause of that problem traced back to the BLM buffs in 2.2 (or thereabouts). The MP problem was only part of the issue for SMNs.

I also never said that BLM was fine. Go back and read my post. I even acknowledged they need attention. Many in this thread are complaining about perceived imbalance compared to SMN though and I was pointing out that this is not true. SMN's were vastly inferior to BLMs for a long time so SE has buffed our AOE burst damage so we're finally comparable again. Yes, Deathflare does not have diminishing returns but we can't use it anywhere near as frequently as you can use Flare so it's not a fair comparison. Our single target damage was also not increased much at all: Ruin III is 40 extra potency but can only be used for 15s every 60s and Deathflare can only be used once every 60s. It's an increase but not by much, and not by anywhere near as much as the new BLM spells can potentially increase the BLM output.

BLMs, like many jobs right now, are having teething problems with the new skills. The new rotations are a little clunky, there's not enough room for error with maintaining dots and buff timers, etc. That needs attention, yes. I just wish people would stop comparing things like the AOE potencies on BLM and SMN skills when the cooldowns and situations in which they can be used are entirely different. Compare the overall dps performance of the jobs, not individual skills.

[Akiza]

Only thing Black Mage doesn't do now is dominate Summoner in every area of dps with ease. There is no direct comaparison to Black Mage and Summoner because most of Summoners abilities aren't spammable. Pain Flare is a poor mans Flare it requires aetherflow stacks to us and can only be done 3 times per minute. Death Flare has a 400 potency but can only be used once per minute so it doesn't add much overall damage to the Summoner.

[Dajinn]

What it really annoys me is the fact that the ability surecast doesn't work on blizzard IV or fire IV, if enochian or astral/umbral expire surecast does not force the cast of both spells.

i don't think this was ever the intended effect of surecast...surecast is only intended to prevent casting interrupts from enemy mechanics that don't physically knock you in any single direction or relinquish character control from the player(static damage or being hit by physical auto attacks from mobs). the cast canceling of b4/f4 is just bad game programming.

[Xenitan]

The irony here is somewhat priceless given that all the BLMs were saying SMN was fine when BLMs had the highest single target and AOE damage towards the end of the previous patch cycle.

After the mana change to Summoners, it was pretty easy to justify taking them. You get a better virus, a better eye for an eye and a combat res all on a class that can handle any of the mechanics a bard could (and if it involved taking magic damage, better than a bard could). If you take a Black Mage you get Apoc and really nothing else. If the two classes are doing equal DPS, you take the summoner every single time. Right now, Summoners are doing more in both aoe and single target. That's a problem.

Magnitude matters, but in the aggregate it's way worse for Summoners to be higher DPS than Black Mages than it is the other way around. There's a break-even point somewhere on the side of "Black Mages are slightly higher DPS than Summoners".

[HaroldSaxon]

You shouldn't even be comparing to any of the melees as they're all balanced on entirely separate criteria. All of the melee jobs should have higher single target damage than the ranged jobs by virtue of being at greater risk in melee range and having to reposition a lot more. Any comparisons here are solely between BLM and SMN as caster dps. Between those two BLMs had the highest single target and AOE damage throughout the latter half of the 2.x patch cycle and the cause of that problem traced back to the BLM buffs in 2.2 (or thereabouts). The MP problem was only part of the issue for SMNs.

I disagree. Melee's have instant cast abilities and are no more difficult to play. BLM's are just as movement incapacitated as Melee's. They are all DPS classes at the end of the day - and what should be taken into account is raid utility; Monks have Dragon kick. Dragoons have battle litany and disembowel. Ninja's have the Trick attack. SMN's have Enhanced Virus, Lower CD Eye for an Eye and Raise. If casters are automatically given lower dps because they are ranged, there isn't a need for them, unless if there are either artificial magic only phases (e.g. T11 in progression), AOE or if a specific mechanic makes 3 Melee's unfeasible.

I also never said that BLM was fine. Go back and read my post. I even acknowledged they need attention. Many in this thread are complaining about perceived imbalance compared to SMN though and I was pointing out that this is not true. SMN's were vastly inferior to BLMs for a long time so SE has buffed our AOE burst damage so we're finally comparable again. Yes, Deathflare does not have diminishing returns but we can't use it anywhere near as frequently as you can use Flare so it's not a fair comparison. Our single target damage was also not increased much at all: Ruin III is 40 extra potency but can only be used for 15s every 60s and Deathflare can only be used once every 60s. It's an increase but not by much, and not by anywhere near as much as the new BLM spells can potentially increase the BLM output.

Talking about reading posts, where did I accuse you of saying that? Just because SMN had mana issues last patch doesn't mean that they should be kings this patch.

BLMs, like many jobs right now, are having teething problems with the new skills. The new rotations are a little clunky, there's not enough room for error with maintaining dots and buff timers, etc. That needs attention, yes. I just wish people would stop comparing things like the AOE potencies on BLM and SMN skills when the cooldowns and situations in which they can be used are entirely different. Compare the overall dps performance of the jobs, not individual skills.

It isn't just teething problems and clunky rotations. Its broken skills and broken rotations. Thundercloud gone - dps loss. Spellspeed gutted - DPS loss. Fey Glow gone - dps loss. 3 second casts instead of 2.5 (Potency doesn't mean everything!). You have to cut short your Enochian refresh because of the refresh diminishing returns. Does Monk have to do that?

Also, when in my last post did I compare AOE potency on BLM to SMN this patch?

[HaroldSaxon]

Only thing Black Mage doesn't do now is dominate Summoner in every area of dps with ease. There is no direct comaparison to Black Mage and Summoner because most of Summoners abilities aren't spammable. Pain Flare is a poor mans Flare it requires aetherflow stacks to us and can only be done 3 times per minute. Death Flare has a 400 potency but can only be used once per minute so it doesn't add much overall damage to the Summoner.

You know Flare can only be done 6 times a minute due to transpose cooldown. Sure you can do double with convert but that is a 3 minute cooldown anyway.

[Meleoffs]

You never needed to run triple flares in the add phase in T13. That phase is timed. Save your cooldowns for the phase after.

That was my whole argument against triple flaring but hey, whatever inflates numbers people think is better smh. I could have worded my arguments better but whatever. The only thing that I wish carried over from WoW is "who the fuck cares about aoe?" Like if you weren't getting through add phase in t13, a single flare wouldn't help.

[Dajinn]

One day we'll finally have an MMO that doesn't rely on lame adds and add-based mechanics to actually make fights challenging and unique.

[Asheloux]

Most blms?

Yes, most blms have used triple flare at some point for some reason.
.....not all the time.

[Alberel]

I disagree. Melee's have instant cast abilities and are no more difficult to play. BLM's are just as movement incapacitated as Melee's. They are all DPS classes at the end of the day - and what should be taken into account is raid utility; Monks have Dragon kick. Dragoons have battle litany and disembowel. Ninja's have the Trick attack. SMN's have Enhanced Virus, Lower CD Eye for an Eye and Raise. If casters are automatically given lower dps because they are ranged, there isn't a need for them, unless if there are either artificial magic only phases (e.g. T11 in progression), AOE or if a specific mechanic makes 3 Melee's unfeasible.

Well you're welcome to disagree but that is how the game is already balanced. All the melee jobs have a higher single target DPS output than any of the ranged jobs. That is how the game has been balanced for over a year now. The effective damage output ends up being more equal due to their losing damage to mechanics but their base potencies are actually higher than casters and on a training dummy or largely stationary fights they will parse much higher. Clearly despite this balancing the ranged jobs haven't been rendered obsolete (though SMN very nearly was due to being eclipsed by BLM) so your fears are unwarranted.

As for BLM, they have far more reliable burst than a SMN which makes them ideal for add phases or taking out targets quickly. SMNs being DOT based means they deal their damage in a fairly even spread over a long time which makes them less ideal for taking out priority targets. Even with the new SMN skills BLMs are still better at this unless we conveniently have Dreadwyrm Trance ready to use at the exact moment needed, and due to the aethertrail timer that's not easy to do unless we deliberately sacrifice damage prior to that.

To be honest you're falling into the exact trap I was describing in looking at the numbers and assuming this makes SMN instantly better. It doesn't. You're not thinking about the practical differences in how the jobs deal that damage.

Talking about reading posts, where did I accuse you of saying that? Just because SMN had mana issues last patch doesn't mean that they should be kings this patch.

You questioned whether I had taken into account a long list of problems contributing to the BLM issues. The implication was that I hadn't taken those into account and thus thought there was no problem. I wanted to be explicit in pointing out that I do not disagree on the subject of BLMs having issues. As for SMNs being kings... I never said they should be. I've already agreed that BLM has problems so clearly I'm agreeing with you that they need some attention.

It isn't just teething problems and clunky rotations. Its broken skills and broken rotations. Thundercloud gone - dps loss. Spellspeed gutted - DPS loss. Fey Glow gone - dps loss. 3 second casts instead of 2.5 (Potency doesn't mean everything!). You have to cut short your Enochian refresh because of the refresh diminishing returns. Does Monk have to do that?

I classify those all as teething problems. SE has made a lot of sweeping changes to many jobs and a lot of previous synergies have been lost. Further changes will be needed going forward to compensate for those losses. You class if not broken and those changes aren't bugs. They're just an oversight that needs to be accounted for.

Also, when in my last post did I compare AOE potency on BLM to SMN this patch?

I never said that you said those things. My post was quite clear in referring to previous posters in this thread making those comparisons.