Your thoughts on Astrolgian so far?

[Leiloni]

Can someone explain why giving AST equal base potencies would invalidate Divine Seal, Cure 3, Benediction, Assize, Aero 3, Aetherflow, SCH's fairy (along with the skills they bring), Shadow Flare, Bane, Virus, Lustrate, Eye For An Eye, Indomitability, Deployment Tactics and Dissipation? These are things AST has no ability to mimic (at least effectively or as efficient). If anything, AST would be able to more easily replace WHM for anything except progression. Why should AST suffer for its cards while SCH doesn't suffer for its fairy?

I don't even have a problem with AST's base potencies being lower, I have a problem with the utility it mimics from SCH that SCH also does better and the only unique thing it brings is gated behind constant RNG. I have had times where I've spread bole, drew bole and shuffled into bole in the course of 35 seconds only to draw bole again the next time during periods of barely any damage being done to the tank.

Base potencies aren't actually lower. When you go into a stance, the stance bonuses bring them up to par. If you were to play without a stance on then yes they would be, but the tooltips only have slightly lower numbers because you're expected to have one of the two stances on and then the healing spells are all equal.


Where the AST is lacking is in proper emergency cooldowns for heavy healing situations, along with minor tweaks to how the cards work.

Although in terms of feeling like healing is not enough people need to keep in mind a few things - a lot of DRK's are leveling now and that being a new class with a learning curve and balance/bug issues of it's own must be taken into account. When you get decent group members things are fine. Also I've seen complaints from SCH/WHM as well about various things so it's not like AST are the only ones. People are used to overgearing stuff and forget that this is exactly how it was playing SCH/WHM when the game first came out. I remember especially on my WHM that learning how to manage mana was very important and WHM's that hadn't yet figured that out always thought the class had mana issues. Leveling my SCH after WHM I always felt we had less AoE healing until I learned how to deal with it. Healing through heavy healing situations on those classes seemed more difficult at first until you learned how to best play the class, got more gear, and class changes came through. A lot is going on right now and AST is not anywhere near as bad as people think. Just keep in mind the bigger picture here.

[RaeyFonzur]

Base potencies aren't actually lower. When you go into a stance, the stance bonuses bring them up to par. If you were to play without a stance on then yes they would be, but the tooltips only have slightly lower numbers because you're expected to have one of the two stances on and then the healing spells are all equal.

I agree with this while in Nocturnal Stance, but Diurnal forces you to use more mp. It would definitely feel better though if AST had base potencies without the stance buffs.

Where the AST is lacking is in proper emergency cooldowns for heavy healing situations, along with minor tweaks to how the cards work.

This is why AST can never replace WHM or SCH in its current state even if they buffed their base potencies. AST needs something powerful and unique that involves healing, not its RNG card system.

[Rajeme]

This is why AST can never replace WHM or SCH in its current state even if they buffed their base potencies. AST needs something powerful and unique that involves healing, not its RNG card system.

Ha. I was just thinking they might tweak Light speed to something very formidable like "reduce cast time 2.5s and remove all cd", then I'm fine with 25% potency loss.

[EchuKayu]

AST offers less security to a raid than the other healers. When you're working on progression content, that security is far more useful than what an AST brings to a raid. Certainly, some of the AST skills will have some good raid use.

I find that mana is a huge issue, and I feel I should be supporting my party/raid, not feeling like I have to ewer/spear myself because AST have terrible mana regen and no ohshit cooldowns the others have. Lightspeed is honestly a joke, that's for sure.

They really need to do something about those issues, as well as fix the useless of cards. If I could sum up my problems with AST, it would be to make cards more meaningful. If we're going to suffer in other areas, that -has- to be what makes up for it, and currently it does not. That's just what I can tell from playing on another 60 AST and what I gather from others.

Celestial Opposition should also do more than it currently does, possibly something similar to Assize, because 150sec CD on something like that is just...it's just horrible, especially for a level 60 spell.

[Leiloni]

I agree with this while in Nocturnal Stance, but Diurnal forces you to use more mp. It would definitely feel better though if AST had base potencies without the stance buffs.


This is why AST can never replace WHM or SCH in its current state even if they buffed their base potencies. AST needs something powerful and unique that involves healing, not its RNG card system.

Diurnal is actually more mana efficient because of the regen effects. Diurnal Aspected Benefic heals for a total of 790 potency while Nocturnal Aspected Benefic only heals for 525 potency. I keep up the HoT from Diurnal on the tank at all times and it's a great way to keep up their HP. Especially when you consider it's more healing than a Benefic II and far more mana efficient, it's a great supplement to Benefic I spam with the occasional Benefic II if they get low and ED is on CD. It's also useful if a DPS only needs healing but doesn't need to be topped up immediately, it's more mana efficient than Benefic I in Diurnal stance (and almost the same mana efficiency of Benefic I in Nocturnal if they actually need the entire HoT.) Diurnal Aspected Helios has a total of 640 potency while Nocturnal has a potency of about 294. As for the base potency in the other heals being slightly smaller, it's made up for in the fact that you can cast heals faster, so it amounts to the same healing that way. Considering AST HoTs stack with WHM, I can't honestly see any reason to ever play in Nocturnal stance.

[Superlol]

I've been wondering, if i'm healing with a WHM should i still use Diurnal? I know it might be overhealing but its better than using weak shields i suppose.. The regens stack anyway. What's your opinion?

[bideogames]

hi i hit 60 and wrote some trash about ast. except i have to edit this post for the char limit hold on.

THE GOOD:

• TIME DILATION: Pretty great. Would be even better if the english tooltip clarified that it only extends YOUR buffs on the target. (which is understandable. +15s of hallowed ground???) Also it would be cool if it was usable on yourself.
• CELESTIAL OPPOSITION: 4s instant cast aoe stun that increases the duration of your buffs on nearby allies by 5s. Love it.

THE "IT'S OK BUT IT COULD BE BETTER":

• ESSENTIAL DIGNITY: A 400 potency heal that scales up to 1000 potency depending on how much hp the target is missing. Our #1 emergency heal, almost absolutely perfect except for one glaring problem. It's an ability, and abilities aren't affected by +% to healing effects anymore for some reason (rip warrior.....).
• DISABLE: This is actually one of my favourites. It requires somewhat quick reflexes (for this game anyway) and fight knowledge to use effectively. I'd love to see if it was increased to -15% potency or something though.
• SYNASTRY: Great. Time dilation needs to work with it though. Currently casting time dilation on your synastry'd target will still remove the buff when your synatry buff runs out. (you cannot time dilation yourself to fix this)

THE BAD:

• LIGHTSPEED: Lowers your cast times by 2.5s, making 2.5 base cast time spells instant and 3.0s castable while moving! ...and then it lowers your magic potency by 25%, making it almost worthless except for stoneskin, raise, and casting during very movement heavy phases. Also doesn't lower your recast time at all. Maybe the most situational ability in the game?
• COLLECTIVE UNCONSIOUSNESS: A 6y radius bubble that's either a 900~ potency heal over 18 seconds or -10% damage taken. Has 3 major problems.

1. It's centered on you. Potentially forcing you out of position to use it effectively. This is made even worse by...
2. Moving cancels it. Meaning if a random aoe pops up your way you just blew your cooldown with nothing really to show for it.
3. Finally, the real killer. You can't act during the spell. You're forced to sit there like an idiot with your arms out for a 150 potency aoe regen or a significantly worse sacred soil.

Imagine how much better this skill would be if you could either aim the bubble or act during it. Currently it's only really useful on easy trash, or when everyone is normally huddled up for big boss attacks that take upwards of 20 seconds. Really disappointing.

THE UGLY: ALMOST THE ENTIRE CARD SYSTEM

• Arrow and Balance: Assuming completely average rng (according to my quick and terrible math anyway) and no royal roads or shuffles, provides an average dps increase of 1.66%. Which is slightly more than a sch with selene merely existing in the group.
• Spear: Too situational. Almost requires the stars to align (HEH) in order to get a good spear off. Would be nice if already used abilities cooled down 20% faster while spear was active.
• Bole: Probably going to be sitting in your spread 99% of the time it's off cooldown because our only real +%healing cooldown is synastry, which doesnt help against big single target damage at all.
• Spire: Completely average in every possible way. Would be great if we could actually see tp bars to see who needs it the most. (thanks ps3....)
• Ewer: It's just spire for mp. Only useful for 2 classes on trash. at least we can see mp bars though

On the slightly more extreme scale, combining ewer and spire into a single card and coming up with a new one would be great.

• Royal Road: Would be great if it lowered the cooldown of draw slightly. (-10s?)

Enhanced RR: 150% card potency. 1 and a half cards for the price of 2. Not great, considering balance and bole (to a slightly lesser degree) are both very good cards.
Expanded RR: Half potency, card becomes aoe. Obviously significantly more useful in 8 mans. Slightly increased radius would be nice.
Extended RR: 2x duration. 2 cards for the price of 2. Can be fun with time dilation and celestial. No real problems with it.

• Spread: Just let us use it out of combat. People are going to try to game the system no matter what. (hey guys wait up let me draw until i get a certain card, then start combat so i can store it.)

• Shuffle: Disable the ability for it to give the same card again. Reduce the cooldown to 60s maybe.

Get rid of card rng, replace it with a card queue. ex. balance -> spear -> spire -> bole -> arrow -> ewer -> balance. RNG can be fun, but consistency is better for the job's performance. Also increases the skill ceiling slightly by making the player remember the card order.
Shuffle can still return a random card to maintain a small amount of rng factor.

[chumsy]

I've been wondering, if i'm healing with a WHM should i still use Diurnal? I know it might be overhealing but its better than using weak shields i suppose.. The regens stack anyway. What's your opinion?

Should always be in Diurnal, unless theres another AST, then its better to have one of each.

[LycorisSelunis]

Should always be in Diurnal, unless theres another AST, then its better to have one of each.

Since it wasn't in the notes for hotfix- two ast diurnal hots DO NOT stack. If you are 2 ast comp, one of you needs nocturnal.

[SmackyHuggins]

That is why complaints should focus on cards, and not on healing / shielding potency. I assume that current Astrologians were drawn to the job by the cards, not by "Oh look I can be a WHM or a SCH!".

Honestly, it is common sense that AST cant be as specialized as the other two jobs. The focus is on cards: whine about that if you must, not about potency.

I agree with this and feel like our potency should be lower than the others in favor of the card system we bring. But that card system needs a review. I have been following this thread for for a bit and have wanted to reply with some ideas I have been knocking around in my head.
If you look at a job with a similar gimmick, such as Corsair in XI, they could pick their buffs, but the RNG aspect was the potency. COR could "roll the dice" after they picked a buff to try and make it better or possibly worse if they busted. Our roll of the dice is simply what buff we get so I feel the reward for the risk of not knowing what you are going to get should be that every card is useful on anyone and our decision is based on the current situation and the only reason to Royal Road or Spread is to try and set up a good combo or anticipate a part of a fight as a bonus, whereas right now we use them to sit on one of the few "good cards".
These are some ideas I had for the card effects and abilities:
-All cards should have the same duration. The fact that 3 have a shorter duration is proof that SE knew they were better or more useful and they felt the need to limit them. If you are going to make us play with RNG then they should all have the same duration, whether the 20secs ones are shortened (not what I would choose lol) or the 15secs ones are lengthened (yes please!).
-DRAW: Alot of ppl are clamoring for reduced cooldown, which I can get behind, but I think an interesting mechanic would be a way to reset the cool down similar to River of Blood for Bard, perhaps a % chance on Crit heal or something?
-BOLE: Earth, Damage reduced by 10%. I think this card is fine as is.
-ARROW: Wind, Attack speed increased by 10%. I think this card is fine as is.
-SPEAR: Ice, Ability Recast reduced by 20%. Currently only works if the ability is used while under the effect of the card. It has been said that it is a bug and that it should shorten recasts already running. If that fix comes through then I believe this card will be fine.
-SPIRE: Lightning, TP cost of weaponskills reduced 20%. This card is the one no one wants and I think that is a problem. The fact that this card just gets RR'd or Shuffled should speak volumes. The TP reduction should be rolled into Ewer as a resource cost reduction card and Spire should get something more in line with its element. I am thinking Crit Rate increase which would include healing crits. This would add a level of strategy to decide to give it to a melee for the DPS, a tank to help with hate (thru increased dmg) or ourselves to boost healing as well as possibly proc the reset on Draw proposed above.
-EWER: Water, MP Cost reduced 20%. This should have TP cost reduction rolled into it making it a blanket resource reduction card. Or possibly MP/TP regeneration as some ppl have proposed. This would again aid in the only useful instance or TP reduction right now which would be mass pulls as it would allow both melee and casters to go all out if is AoE'd as well as a healer to keep ppl up during this by helping everyone's resource on one card.
-BALANCE: Fire, Damage done increased 10%. I think this card should also be a boost to healing done. The card would effectively buff whatever the player's main stat would affect, ie Dmg for melee, magic dmg for a caster, and healing potency for healer. This would allow for a buff useful to anyone but again we must pick our targets for the moment we draw it.
Alot of these changes are also to address some of the missing links in AST arsenal such as a boost to healing done (which, if on a card could be given to another healer in an 8 man) and MP issues.
-SHUFFLE: I know alot of ppl want it eliminate the chance to get the same card again. While I feel that pain I think the very notion of returning a card and shuffling the deck should have the possibility to draw the same card. But I would not be against it lol.
-SPREAD: I know alot of ppl want it usable out of combat. I think this might be a little OP but there are ways to fudge it now (unlike RR a card stays in Spread through zones and entering DF) so they might as well just give it to us lol
-ROYAL ROAD: My only complaint with RR right now is that it is used on the next card so if you have a card in spread with a RR effect you want you stop Drawing effectively eliminating our gimmick. A solution may be to have a way where where we use a card then choose to RR the effect after. An example would be: Draw Arrow, RR, now we have the AoE option, Draw Bole, at this point would could RR Bole for Potency increase or use Bole, if we use Bole RR would flash similar to a combo'd move and we have a short time to decide to apply RR effect to the Bole we just used, if we do the RR effect overwrites the old one (potency increase, duration increase, or AoE with current duration transferred). This would make us think on our toes. If we don't use it within the time frame we maintain the RR effect for next Draw.
-SECTS: I am of the camp to allow us to switch in combat. I believe this would raise the skill ceiling on the job and make us more versatile.

This doesn't even get into the abilities as I am still leveling (AST 55)and haven't seen them all in action yet. I have done dungeons and trials as both AST and SCH and it really comes down to the party as well and how well they play. I have had crappy runs on SCH and great runs on AST and vice versa. Every healer has a gimmick and I think that is what needs to be balanced rather than the knee jerk to just buff the heals. Balancing the cards will make everything else fall in line and make the job come into its own.