Machinist needs serious attention

[LittleArrow]

1) I did read the front page
2) I repeat - we still haven't seen the new raid content. You are saying coil was like that. Well we do not know if the new raids will be coil like. At least the fights that i have seen now are rather annoying on melee with a lot of movement and dps downtime. When we get to alexander and we see that it does not work then i agree. there is a problem. (because honestly. dps numbers matter only in raids in this game )
3) you still didn't answer my Disembowel question. And maybe it has been answered but honestly i don't want to skim through 20 pages.

I do think that it is stupid that ppl are starting to exclude bards and mch from PF acceptable player list. but then again. they ask for ilvl170 for Bismarck. so that says everything

I apologize then, because I don't understand your post. I've already addressed the issues with 'movement' as have others in this thread.Melee don't move.. and if they do it does not effect their dps. I have NEVER out dps'd a melee on my ranged due to advantage with movement except maybe in.. t9? Even then, it was only in one phase, one short phase. Also, no I haven't tested disembowled b/c I had that move on my brd all during this last phase of coil and it did very little to change what I was outputting. If someone comes here and says, hey disembowl fixes all of our problems, I'll gladly bow down with an apology. However, from my experience, I don't need to test it, it's not going to do much and if it does, then that's even doubly disappointing that a DPS class is solely reliant on 1 move to put them where they should be normally.

If you feel that way regarding movement as an advantage, then there's no amount of logic, experience, or even evidence I show you to that will change your mind. So, we'll have to agree to disagree.

Btw... so furious over these fixes. Because yeah, makes so much sense to fix a class that everyone is either abandoning, excluding, or coming here to express their frustrations over. Was the Rapid fire buff bug hurting literally anyone? No. It wasn't. Even with the bug the class reported lower numbers. It only made this class a little more bearable to play. Such great business decisions. If anyone has fun in this game it seems it's nerfed instantly. Thanks for that.

Also, a sidenote, I will never use Guass Barrel - it was a net dps loss when it was used as reported by reddit, now with a 3sec cast in the middle of the rotation.. it is absolutely an utterly useless to me. The 200 potency freebie along with the richochet did not make this move viable, so with a 3sec cast, it definitely is not viable.

[xnonamex]

Melee don't move.. and if they do it does not effect their dps.

Well this... just says everything i guess

Then there's no amount of logic, experience, or even evidence I show you to that will change your mind.

yes. right back at you

And regarding Dis. As i understand the composition of damage from which bards get dis bonus and mach gets bonus differs. as i understand mach has less dots? and as i understand bards dots don't get bonus from piercing damage reduction (at least i read that). But meh. was just putting it out there as a consideration. Don't need to get overworked over it

Anyway. All i wanted to say is that imo ppl are just too fast to bash on everything they don't like in this game when we don't even have all the content available. Never rly said that you might be wrong (you can re-read my posts if you are not sure).

[Ramath]

Well this... just says everything i guess

yes. right back at you

And regarding Dis. As i understand the composition of damage from which bards get dis bonus and mach gets bonus differs. as i understand mach has less dots? and as i understand bards dots don't get bonus from piercing damage reduction (at least i read that). But meh. was just putting it out there as a consideration. Don't need to get overworked over it

Anyway. All i wanted to say is that imo ppl are just too fast to bash on everything they don't like in this game when we don't even have all the content available. Never rly said that you might be wrong (you can re-read my posts if you are not sure).

The ability to claim uncertainty only stands on the basis of having POSITIVE evidence alongside negative evidence. Hence, the uncertainty. When all we have it negative evidence, what other conclusion can people jump to?

If you are so certain there's a possibility of MCN doing just fine in any sort of high-end raid, I would love to see your evidence.

Second, the DRG piercing debuff will help, yes, but not nearly to the degree that you are suggesting. You see, we have a similar buff to help the DRGs in return, but you don't see their DPS jumping up to extreme amounts. Are you saying Disembowel really has to potential to add ~100-200 DPS needed to put us on par with other jobs? If so, wouldn't that same logic justify a debilitating nerf to DRG? After all, BRD got nerfed for helping other jobs perform better.

PS: Adding smilies doesn't hide your rudeness.

[xnonamex]

...

1) I have a friend playing who is fine with how MCH plays and he is pulling decent numbers in real fights. Also there are some MCH here who tried to suggest that it is actually not that bad but most ppl ignored them. (again. not suggesting that you are wrong!)
2) Well there won't be evidence until we get high lvl raid will there?
3) Oh im interested what that buff is? Haven't had the chance to play so much lately with random party setups so I don't know (again, this is not bashing, im truly interested ).
4) Well i do not know how much it would add. it rly depends on your composition of skills how much actually are piercing. And that is something that i was asking tbh. Cuz also for me it is interesting how much it might add.
5) At which point was I rude?!

@LittleArrow no need to apologize. Just saying that my intention was to never bash against anyone. Just wanted to have a discussion. But it started to get a bit heated imo....

[Ramath]

1) I have a friend playing who is fine with how MCH plays and he is pulling decent numbers in real fights. Also there are some MCH here who tried to suggest that it is actually not that bad but most ppl ignored them. (again. not suggesting that you are wrong!)
2) Well there won't be evidence until we get high lvl raid will there?
3) Oh im interested what that buff is? Haven't had the chance to play so much lately with random party setups so I don't know (again, this is not bashing, im truly interested ).
4) Well i do not know how much it would add. it rly depends on your composition of skills how much actually are piercing. And that is something that i was asking tbh. Cuz also for me it is interesting how much it might add.
5) At which point was I rude?!

@LittleArrow no need to apologize. Just saying that my intention was to never bash against anyone. Just wanted to have a discussion. But it started to get a bit heated imo....

1) I pull "decent" numbers, too. "Decent" isn't the issue. The issue is the fact that MCN isn't where it SHOULD be. ie- closer to ANY other DPS (BRD included). I just put a BRD to shame in a dungeon. It means he was terrible at his job. It doesn't mean MCN is "just fine the way it is" as some people are trying argue.
2) There will be no proof until we have higher level raids. We have plenty of evidence now. We have countless parses, some by good players and some by bad players, all showing that MCN is the undisputed low man on the totem pole by a good margin.
3) Our buff is Hypercharge. It gives our turret's auto attacks an added effect that applies to any target it hits. The Rook (our single target turret) gives a debuff to the mob that makes it take added physical damage for a time. The turret's buff lasts for 15 secs, but it applies a 10 debuff to the target, which refreshes a couple secs per additional hit.
4) Not knowing is understandable. As someone who has cleared T1-13 as a DRG, yes it helped. Almost any buff will. But it never raised our BRD's dps nearly that much.

[LittleArrow]

Well this... just says everything i guess

The context of that quote is that if dps does move, the dps loss is never significant to warrant the dps disparity between melee and ranged. I apologize if I seem overworked, but you're one of a dozen people that come here, don't play the class, throw out criticism to the arguments being made without experience with the class. Not to mention, we just got nerfed with a fix that was totally unnecessary, so I apologize, but I'm full sith mode atm with utter frustration.

Thank you for your suggestions in either case. Any interest in this issue should be appreciated whether or not I may be welcoming, in which case again, I apologize.