The argument"MCH/Bard have utility so their damage should be lower"

[Underdog2204]

You're right. I do use Trick Attack for the extra damage. I also use it because the vulnerability buff increases party dps as well. You know what else? I use my turret my the extra damage. I power it up with Hypercharge because it boost my damage another 10% for 15 seconds, as well as the parties. They're pretty much the same thing. Things you use for damage with buffs to help the party. You're argument holds no water on that front.

*Cough* 5% boost for physical damage only *Cough*

:P

Trick Attack is on a whole other level when compared, same with disembowel too imo xD

Is it only 5%? Ugh. I assumed it was the same amount at trick attack. I could picture Bishop being only 5% because it's the AOE. But I thought rook would be the same.

Yup only 5%.

Guess even as a "support dps" our skills that are "supporty" should be that much worse than melee classes too it seems lol.

You know... Balance :P

Melee got no good utility... Oh no... Nothing to bring to the table at all. That's why they need awesome dps to compensate... See how this makes sense?

Kinda annoying really when they say its Dex ranged who want everything

Snip

It's far to sensible to happen lol :P

To me it's perfectly clear this is the direction SE was/is attempting to go with them but they missed the mark. Initally BRD was the only Dex ranged dps and therefore had no competition, people seem to have it in their head nothing has changed.

Well I've got news for them, having the introduction of MCH means everything has changed, just by sheer fact BRD no longer is the ranged physical king (lol) by proxy.

From everyone posts saying its perfectly ok as it will "always have a spot" arn't getting it. You wil never take MCH and BRD in one group, just never... Being able to exclude people just because of class seems ok to them so long as it's not their own it seems.

Well guess what? It wasn't ok for any other class and it is not ok for these two... It should be perfectly feasable to take a BRD and MCH in the same group just like you can for the 2 casters and all the melee.

The sheer fact some of you agree with excluding based on class is absolutely disgusting and you should all be ashamed.

Not like it matters, it seems most of them have been scared off by people pointing out how nonsensical what they were saying was :P

[Ryaz]

*Cough* 5% boost for physical damage only *Cough*

:P

Trick Attack is on a whole other level when compared, same with disembowel imo too xD

Is it only 5%? Ugh. I assumed it was the same amount at trick attack. I could picture Bishop being only 5% because it's the AOE. But I thought rook would be the same.

[SovereignAegis]

Is it only 5%? Ugh. I assumed it was the same amount at trick attack. I could picture Bishop being only 5% because it's the AOE. But I thought rook would be the same.

Lmao nope, MCH at present is so... needing a lot of buffs.

[ziddyt]

Words

Okay, first of all, it's people like you that are killing my faith in this community. People who don't really understand the balance of the game, and literally make stuff up out of thin air.

BRD literally never got nerfed. Their potencies were never touched. You are spreading misinformation (additionally, the two-bard comp was really only made popular because of T2 silencing, not because of superior DPS).

Cross-class got nerfed. This affected all DPS, just BRD moreso than others, due to cross-classing both Blood for Blood and Internal Release (which got the un-traited buffs cut in half), compared to MNK and DRG only cross-classing one. SMN was hit harder with the loss of Thunder cross-class entirely. Well, back then at least.

You also clearly have no idea how hard -20% (now -15%) damage hurts if you are constantly rotating songs. To reiterate, BRD did not get nerfed, and if they spent/spend the whole fight singing MP/TP songs for "infinite tp and mp," their damage would ridiculously gimped and they wouldn't come close to Caster DPS.

Now, that said, WM and GB are certainly not restoring any "lost damage" since your nerf story is completely made up. It should absolutely be a buff that allows them to take a pure dps ranged spot, because the buff should be significant enough that turning it off for mobility should be enough of a DPS loss that they won't compete with a Caster, forcing them to learn the ABCs (always be casting) of dodging efficiently like BLM has.

And their support should have no affect on this. If you want to take a pure ranged spot in a group, chances are you don't want to be providing tp/mp support anyway, but just to clarify, since I guess no one knows this, providing TP/MP support already lowers your DPS! No need for any further penalties! Isn't that great? Now everyone can stop complaining about it. And if we want to start comparing Requiem and Hypercharge to everything NIN and DRG brings for party DPS, well... lol.

Allowing WM and GB to bring BRDs and MCHs up to competitive DPS will not cause any dreaded job stacking, and you are simply fear mongering. One BRD provides quite enough support as it is. No one is going to say "NOPE, NO CASTERS MOAR SUPPORT" if just WM and GB allow this. It would only be potentially overpowered if they were competitive and still completely mobile. Now, will it allow for groups to *possibly* take a 2nd physical ranged instead of a caster, but as a pure DPS that provides no support and is a permanent turret? Sure! And that's absolutely not a problem, no one would feel forced to, and people that want to play a physical ranged without being shoehorned into a terrible support role get what they want. Everyone wins!

[Ryaz]

Melee get the best damage, great utility and the best limit breaks. We ranged players get to make them look better (except not really). It just doesn't work out that well in reality.

[Pluvia]

Melee get the best damage, great utility and the best limit breaks. We ranged players get to make them look better (except not really). It just doesn't work out that well in reality.

Yes bards/machinists need WM and GB buffed/fixed aka blood letter bug. I don't want to see them give up on WM and GB like some of these people want. It makes sense that you trade the mobility for the extra damage when needed but it needs to actually you know be a dps increase lol. Plus if we have any fight like t8 we're going to be majorly hurting for dps so i don't want to pug fights without a bard lol

Last thing here People overstate how much most melee's utility. Goad won't stop you from being TP starved. Also for limit breaks melee limit isn't always the go to limit for a fight lvl 3 wise.

[Odowla]

You get the best utility in the game.

Considering MCH does BRD dps, and MCH utility is stronger than BRD, i'd take one over a bard tbh.

[Somewarlock84]

I get yelled at for poor DPS being a MCH. Heck I feel like I'm always yelled at for my DPS. Makes me want to just main something else even tho I love the idea around MCH. Just.. Ugh...

[Pluvia]

I get yelled at for poor DPS being a MCH. Heck I feel like I'm always yelled at for my DPS. Makes me want to just main something else even tho I love the idea around MCH. Just.. Ugh...

Honestly if you like it just stick with it it will get fixed if groups can't clear with a BRD/MCH its not the BRD/MCH fault its the group not like your dps is so abysmal that nothing can be cleared

[Kitkat]

There are a couple issues with how they made changes that aren't exactly meshing out in the long run like they should. SE made DoT's affected by Skill Speed since otherwise it was a nearly useless state for a brd to have, period (yes I realize this was across the board, but I'm trying to remain on topic specifically here). If done right, WM should compensate for the loss of Auto Attacks with increased DoTs potency base and tick/cycle by gearing with SS in the mix. On top of this, they increased the PROC of blood letter reset from 20% to 50%, and made RoD similar, so that while in WM stance there is a viable and spammable AoE option available. Overall, this should make up for the pitfalls of using WM, but they don't because of the inability to activate them during casting bar.

Now, there are a couple ways of correcting this so that the unforseen pitfalls aren't as bad, but it really depends on what SE decides to do - if anything (sorry, past has shown me since 1.0 that there are times where SE will hold firm on their decisions regardless of the playerbase). Keep in mind, I don't pretend to be a programmer of games so don't know if some of these would even be possible, but these are just various options in order to give bard back the damage they lost with changes, without making them too strong and overtaking straight DPS Jobs. Remember, the point is to bring brds at least up to around 1000~1100 DPS in ideal situations while other DPS still maintain 1200-1400 range.

A.) Increase damage buff of WM to DoTs and add additional Tick/duration.: A flat increase of the buff will go a long way. This will allow for DoTs to not only continue to add to overall output, but also compensate for the loss of Auto Attacks - currently this is not happening. Over all, it barely makes up for the loss of Auto Attacks let alone adds additional damage like DoTs used to pre3.0 and out of stance.

B.) Lower total cast time, or independent cool down while under WM (making abilities easier to weave): Currently the cast time on top of the reuse timer of Cool Down is being very counter-intuitive. With how E. Arrow is set up, it is easy to go from using Straight Shot and weave over into E. Arrow because we aren't still waiting for it to reset. Perhaps make it so all abilities normally on GCD function like this (Cool Downs become independent of all other abilities, but have a Cast bar to use).

C.) Make it easier to use Blood letter/Rain of Death while under WM: Currently, despite having a 50% PROC reset on these abilities when DoTs are on, it is impossible to fully utilize them while still utilizing other attacks. Make it so that these remain usable actions during Casting and that using them interrupts casting in order to use the PROC'd ability.

These are some ideas I've thought of that could potentially increase brd damage without making them too powerful being as they are meant to be a hybrid class at the core. Pardon if it doesn't make too much sense, I've recently finished a 16 1/2 shift and I'm a bit tired leaving some of the explanations either lacking or not being too coherent.