o.O Overkill on the crafting Dumb down?

[Okiura]

Current crafters life: "Hmm i want to make a HQ doublet", off to the market wards i go buy the mats (or farm them), try to make but... only NQ . Never mind let me try this again, two or three attempts go by. BAM! HQ!

So not only has this crafter put money in to the economy they have also put 4 new NQ doublets in to the wards for non craftes to buy.

Yoshi's crafters life: "Hmm i want to make a HQ doublet", off to the market wards i go buy the HQ mats (or farm them), try to make and... BAM! HQ!

So this crafter put money in to the economy but the by-product of NQ gear isn't there. the crafter isn't going to make/sell NQ stuff (even more so for low lvl gear), and if they make more HQ gear other then the piece they made for them selfs it will be out of the price range of the casual player.

Both these example are going to be hampered by the same HUGE flaw in the game, "the market wards". i'd still pick option one though. it's better for the game over all.

So what if it takes a few attempts to get a HQ verson, this is no diffrient to killing a NM for a piece of gear that may or may not drop, or winning or failing a raid, Do you really want everything to be 100%?

[syntaxlies]

Current crafters life: "Hmm i want to make a HQ doublet", off to the market wards i go buy the mats (or farm them), try to make but... only NQ . Never mind let me try this again, two or three attempts go by. BAM! HQ!

So not only has this crafter put money in to the economy they have also put 4 new NQ doublets in to the wards for non craftes to buy.

Yoshi's crafters life: "Hmm i want to make a HQ doublet", off to the market wards i go buy the HQ mats (or farm them), try to make and... BAM! HQ!

So this crafter put money in to the economy but the by-product of NQ gear isn't there. the crafter isn't going to make/sell NQ stuff (even more so for low lvl gear), and if they make more HQ gear other then the piece they made for them selfs it will be out of the price range of the casual player.

Both these example are going to be hampered by the same HUGE flaw in the game, "the market wards". i'd still pick option one though. it's better for the game over all.

So what if it takes a few attempts to get a HQ verson, this is no diffrient to killing a NM for a piece of gear that may or may not drop, or winning or failing a raid, Do you really want everything to be 100%?

wahoo, HQ for everyone. this is a good day.

[NoctisUmbra]

Current crafters life: "Hmm i want to make a HQ doublet", off to the market wards i go buy the mats (or farm them), try to make but... only NQ . Never mind let me try this again, two or three attempts go by. BAM! HQ!

So not only has this crafter put money in to the economy they have also put 4 new NQ doublets in to the wards for non craftes to buy.

Yoshi's crafters life: "Hmm i want to make a HQ doublet", off to the market wards i go buy the HQ mats (or farm them), try to make and... BAM! HQ!

So this crafter put money in to the economy but the by-product of NQ gear isn't there. the crafter isn't going to make/sell NQ stuff (even more so for low lvl gear), and if they make more HQ gear other then the piece they made for them selfs it will be out of the price range of the casual player.

Both these example are going to be hampered by the same HUGE flaw in the game, "the market wards". i'd still pick option one though. it's better for the game over all.

So what if it takes a few attempts to get a HQ verson, this is no diffrient to killing a NM for a piece of gear that may or may not drop, or winning or failing a raid, Do you really want everything to be 100%?

Very limited foresight there. There are quite a few assumptions built into that prediction of yours for the upcoming changes. Namely how often a crafter will be able to simply visit the market wards and just shop up some HQ mats - especially if they go with +3s only becoming HQ.

The validity of your prediction depends drastically on the availability of HQ materials - something we know nothing of at this point and cannot know anything of until the actual release of the changes.

NQ items will be very abundant - they always are. Not every crafter goes ape shit to make HQ for every piece of gear. It is in fact common practice to make a new piece of gear - even if NQ - first and then work on making an HQ version to upgrade to. At that point they can just sell their NQ gear.

With the current system and people taking attempts upon attempts to make HQ gear, the market becomes flooded with NQ gear thus decreasing their value. With the next system there may well be a healthy balance between NQ and HQ maintained throughout the board.

Also, thanks for including your opinion that the market wards are a huge flaw. It was quite relevant.

[Aeyis]

So NoctisUmbra, if i also start posting with a semi cool sig, in a nice color and equally spaced alineas, do i also get a lot of likes even tho i posted the exact same thing as most others on my side of the argument, like you are doing? ^^

I particular like the part about people disliking change. But really after the few hundred times ive heard someone somewhere say that, it got old.

Now as someone who enjoyed every single FF game i played, (and still do) i find it hard to believe that im in fear of, or against change. If theres anything similar about each FF game after all, then its that they all rather drastically change things.

Now your arguments about the new value of HQ/NQ are quite correct, however with all the ''your opinion, etc'' when you do exactly the same thing, it tends to get buried in what your trying to say~

Moral of my story:
your style may be cool and all, but if you cant play the saint as well as act it, then you might as well not even try.
It tends to make less of people who actually do play it right ya know.

Also for specifics, you mention that we shouldnt fear change and that the changes provide a wonderful base that Yoshi P will expend on and build us wonderful things.
Now thats a wonderful opinion and speculation, and sharing such is welcomed.

But its not fact.

[NoctisUmbra]

So NoctisUmbra, if i also start posting with a semi cool sig, in a nice color and equally spaced alineas, do i also get a lot of likes even tho i posted the exact same thing as most others on my side of the argument, like you are doing? ^^

lol ^^

I like to make things easy to read for people. Personally I hate it when I see a huge block of text, but when something of equal length is spaced properly it looks much neater and presentable.

If anything I post the way I do so people actually read what I take the time to write. If it works, I am pleased

The sig is recent though, but I'm glad you think it's cool ^^

PS: I own navy.

EDIT: as per your ninja edit,

I don't see where you are getting the saint thing. If it's the sig, that's quite funny actually lol...

Also I don't recall saying the future holds wonderful things. I generally argue against the unyielding negative tone of posters - especially ones that show clear misunderstanding of the info that is provided. I try to make sure I am not targeting everyone, because not everyone against my opinions are this way.

The message I try to convey, when applicable, is that the changes proposed are not the end of the world or particularly bad. I'm not saying they will be wonderful, because as you pointed out it is not fact. The facts are not entirely known. I just like to remind people that this, as well as everything at this point in the game, is a Work in Progress.

[Kiote]

Is anyone else a little upset that Yoshida did not address a single issue that sparked this thread?

What are you going to do with Facilities?
What Are you going to do with Treatises?
What are you going to do about the Massive XP gaps that are going to happen do to the loss of Parts recipes?

Thank you for telling us that Cross classes will be relevant in the end game, that one down three to go..

Don't get me wrong I'm glad he explained the new dying system and the new HQ system but he seriously just made the most massive Political dodge of his career by side tracking you all with this new information. What good are these new adjustments if we can't progress in our crafts any more due to loss of recipes? And what good is End Game crafting if the classes have no depth do to the loss of guilds?

[Okiura]

Very limited foresight there. There are quite a few assumptions built into that prediction of yours for the upcoming changes. Namely how often a crafter will be able to simply visit the market wards and just shop up some HQ mats - especially if they go with +3s only becoming HQ.

The validity of your prediction depends drastically on the availability of HQ materials - something we know nothing of at this point and cannot know anything of until the actual release of the changes.

NQ items will be very abundant - they always are. Not every crafter goes ape shit to make HQ for every piece of gear. It is in fact common practice to make a new piece of gear - even if NQ - first and then work on making an HQ version to upgrade to. At that point they can just sell their NQ gear.

With the current system and people taking attempts upon attempts to make HQ gear, the market becomes flooded with NQ gear thus decreasing their value. With the next system there may well be a healthy balance between NQ and HQ maintained throughout the board.

Also, thanks for including your opinion that the market wards are a huge flaw. It was quite relevant.

The current HQ vs NQ issue is a big one in the current system, notice in my example i said 4 attempts and you have the HQ you were aiming for, not the stupidly high number it takes now. but isn't the reason for the crafting changes that started this thread to increase the amount of gear/price and availibty to new players.

my predictions are bassed on the ability to go in to the wards and buy the HQ items (or be able to fam them in a worthwhile amount of time). but if they are too rare then you won't really see any HQ gear because ppl will only make one offs for themself and if the're too common then i think my prediction has a pretty solid foundation.

[Aeyis]

Yes well ironically its mostly the people that like you for the reasons i mentioned above that i disagree with for the most part.
Anyway on the part of what you said you clarified yourself so fair enough.

[Ramsey]

Talk about being hilariously overdramatic. YES! Some recipes taking a few less steps to craft is utterly and completely destroying the depth and uniqueness of the FFXIV crafting system! That is an unfathomably ridiculous statement to make. As for low level gear, when exactly was low level gear an issue? Levelling in this game is so ridiculously quick that low-level gear is in extremely low demand. The game design simply makes it stupid to keep upgrading your gear every 3-4 levels when you achieve those levels within hours of eachother.



So? There will always be one recipe which is optimal for levelling. That recipe will be grinded on and become cheap/vendor trash, and all other low level recipes that /aren't/ grinded on will retain their value. Again, killing the market for 2-3 pieces of low level gear is obviously not a big deal at all, doubly so since low-level gear already has minimal demand.



Post-patch if a low level player wants to craft his own armor or weapons, he can pick up a craft and be high enough level to make his own stuff within an hour. Especially since we know low-level synthing will become simpler with this process. That is a change for the better in every single way imaginable. High level crafters already didn't bother crafting low-level gear, and there's certainly no reason they would bother after the patch.



Again, your ridiculous focus on the low-level gear market shows how out of touch you are with reality. Literally, nobody except low-level players care about low-level gear, and even the most casual new players reach r20-30 within days of starting.

Crafters wanted a more robust endgame system, and this patch will deliver just that. We'll have more difficult synths, more demand for our items through materia, and an easier time crafting gear for our friends because it won't require an hour to make a level 5 wooden shield. This is a win in every way imaginable, and if you disagree you probably haven't levelled a craft yourself to be able to speak intelligently on the topic anyway.

You're the one that's out of touch, sorry. The entire post by Yoshida justifies the simplification of the crafting system around the idea that the major issue is that low level gear is not created, because of the complexity of doing so.

Basically "crafting is too hard and no one makes low level gear" was his argument for the changes. I was suggesting alternatives that could have alleviated the problem.

I realize this is not what crafters want per say, that is to say, they don't care about low level gear. But having a system that incentivizes the creation of the occasional finished product during leveling (not requires) is in no means a bad idea. And yes, the lack of low level gear IS an issue, and WILL be an issue with the PS3 release, and the likely changes to the way gear works in the future.

Of course it's not an issue for you, being a player who is already deeply invested in the game, but to be so blind to think that new players are just going to level to 20 in their starting gear and be satisfied with that, and accuse me of being the one who is out of touch?

What crafters want, true players who want to craft because they think the idea of crafting is fun, is more system that are enjoyable, and unique. Sure we'd like to make money, but if you're only in the crafting for the money, than whatever happens isn't really going to affect you, you're just going to roll with it and exploit whatever market problem you can.

Yes. The fact that every drop in the game had a use, and there was a huge amount of detail in the relationship of items, was in fact something that made the items and crafting/gathering systems in this game unique. It was at times inconvenient, but it wasn't the problem on it's own. Those gripes could have been addressed without nuking the entire system. But I digress, what's done is done.

[Zenaku]

This is embarrassing, but I believe this was the case with FFXIV up until now, so we would like to work on making the game more and more difficult and complex as you progress. (I’m sorry that this is so blatantly obvious.)

I wonder if this only for Craft or also for every part of the game. I mean it be nice that everything else get more and more complex as you go not only just crafting.