Estinien (spoilers)

[Fenral]

What? You mean you aren't going to self-flagellate over some bad thing some other guy did a thousand years ago? How terrible of you! This is why humans are the worst!

/butseriouslyfolks

[TheCount]

Yeah, I like how Estinien was the only one to question the matter a bit more thoroughly than that blind fool Iceheart. He did not believe that Dragons are innocent in the matter, and obviously they aren't. I can't side with the dragons either, their logic is flawed beyond reason even with the whole "Then is as now" argument.

[Jonnycbad]

If you lived for tens of thousands of years, then 1000 years ago will seem like a year ago or so. This is stressed many, many times in the msq. To a dragon, your life is but a single day. Imagine a house fly, which has a life spam of about 24 hours killed your sister. 24 hours is a life for a fly, but to you, it's but a single day. It's understandable the dragons would still be pissed 1000 years later, 1000 years is a day to them.

[TheCount]

If you lived for tens of thousands of years, then 1000 years ago will seem like a year ago or so. This is stressed many, many times in the msq. To a dragon, your life is but a single day. Imagine a house fly, which has a life spam of about 24 hours killed your sister. 24 hours is a life for a fly, but to you, it's but a single day. It's understandable the dragons would still be pissed 1000 years later, 1000 years is a day to them.

Except they aren't really like houseflies, they hold more potential and danger and can be on the same level or greater as dragons in terms of power. They have intelligence and personalities. What sense or reason is there to have hundreds or thousands down the line of the lineage be held responsible. Do you commit yourself to eradicating all flies in the world after one stings you? or a family member happens to die to some killer bee's?

[Jonnycbad]

Edited: double post

[Jonnycbad]

All of the knights we fight and see in CS in their giant form (with their red plumed helmets or helmets with silly crests on them) deeeeeeply resemble Knights of the Round from FF7 heavilllllly, do you guys think we'll see a Good King Moogle Mog-like fight between Thordon and his Knights Twelve, as they're sort of Primal-like, since Ishgardians pray to be saved by them? I just want to be hit for 9,999 damage 13 times by 'Ultimate End' if you fail the mechanics or dps check, and I would want it to be a nice cinematic ultimate like Ravana's but maybe a bit longer, not 3 min long like FF7's but a good 30-40 sec sequence. Everyone would love the fan service. *youtubes KoTR and imagines and FFXIV version*

[Fenral]

All of the knights we fight and see in CS in their giant form (with their silly helmets) resemble Knights of the Round from FF7 heavilllllly, do you guys think we'll see a Good King Moogle Mog-like fight between Thordon and his Knights Twelve, as they're sort of Primal-like, since Ishgardians pray to be saved by them?

You mean, besides the final boss? This thread is discussing the ending, so no I'm not spoiler-tagging that if you didn't already know about it.

[Cilia]

If you lived for tens of thousands of years, then 1000 years ago will seem like a year ago or so. This is stressed many, many times in the msq. To a dragon, your life is but a single day. Imagine a house fly, which has a life spam of about 24 hours killed your sister. 24 hours is a life for a fly, but to you, it's but a single day. It's understandable the dragons would still be pissed 1000 years later, 1000 years is a day to them.

Most people understand that, but the problem here is that the dragons either do not or can not understand that Thordan and his Knights (the perpetrators of the first sin) are long dead, or if they do understand this they don't care. They just want Ishgard to suffer forever.

To use your simile, houseflies do have a short lifespan compared to humans (it's longer than 24h though). If one killed your sister, you'd kill it - most people would end there. You wouldn't swear eternal vengeance on all houseflies and relentlessly hunt them down, as well as allow their children to live so you can torment and maybe kill them, because their cousin's uncle's mother's great great great great grandpappy killed your sister.

Nidhogg killed Thordan and half of the original Knights Twelve, nearly at the cost of his life. That's already more than enough in recompense, but he (and Hraesvelgr through him) chose to perpetuate a bloody war that had no purpose other than making Ishgard's citizens suffer. There's no way to justify that, not even the "time is different for dragons" shtick.

[Jonnycbad]

Just saw video of final boss. Blown away. They got all of the knights' signature moves exactly from ff7, even the spinny helicopter staff attacks and the one random knight that dive bombs through you from the outside, into entire arena. And the screen glass shatter! /fanboy

[Dererk]

Remember the thing about souls with the Echo, though. While she probably can't recover her physical body, her soul is eternal in a different way than most mortals. I suspect she'll be able to help Estinien return to his former self, even in her current state.

By bringing Nanamo back so fraking easily, they've kind of turned this into a setting where no major death can be taken seriously.

I think your forgetting Haurchefant died.

His death hit me more than Nanamo ever would have.

Not to mention it was one of the best scenes in HW.