Bard - they broke my job

[SethLex]

Because they obviously don't think it's broken, and don't care enough to address it.

I believe I can fly. If two hundred people tell me I can't, I'd reconsider.

[Empty-handed]

Bard will always have a raid spot during progression. however, if the job remains the same it wont be required anymore with higher ilevel gear. only if there are long extended fights that will drain the melees tp. otherwise we are just a burden!

the fact that war doing comparable dps to MCN and close to Bard, makes me really hate this game.

and that smn is more mobile at times compared to Magebard.

whatever was inteded to Machinist DOES NOT FIT with bard playstyle at all. unfortunately SE made a big mistake with the ranged dps. and unfortunately WM will remain, and i dont think they will remove it any time soon (maybe look forward to it in 4.0).

i think we are stuck with it. they could make it better and increase the dps increase % to make it somewhat vialbe.

otherwise, im afraid we are stuck with.

[Empty-handed]

im not optimistic, they could do some cosmetic potency buffs here and there. everything else will stay the same

i mean look at how long it took them to fix/remake tri-disaster. or how long it took them to address drg magic defense issue.

[Snugglebutt]

Bard and Machinist are both in severe need of improving, I feel however a lot of the suggestions in this thread are overly complex ways of doing it and not required to such an extent being so complex aka changing a lot of skills instead of just one and/or changing a lot of stats instead of just one...the biggest issue is DPS compared to other classes currently and while for example on Bard WM is a good idea in principle aka the idea that sacrifice mobility to increase DPS; it fails miserably at this on multiple aspects.

The simplest and easiest solution to increasing DPS while under WM is for me removing the auto-attack restriction. Anyone who thinks that would not make a significant improvement for very little effort on SE's side is seriously underestimating the impact auto-attack has on overall DPS. Without that restriction I believe the class would be more inline with others while using WM, however unless they remove that restriction it is hard to know for sure. While the current form of WM is not really detrimental to our DPS, it does not improve it much either, certainly not inline with most other classes.

In my opinion the restriction is not even required in the first place as tackling mobility is handled by the two other elements of WM stance such as cast timers and cancellation of skills in progress if have to move, the auto-attack restriction takes it too far and in combination with those other two things is partially why we have serious DPS comparison issues with other classes. The 20% increase on WM is already offset by cast timers and mobility consequences on casting skills, any benefit is damaged to much by the lack of auto-attack on top of the knowledge groups won't stop asking you to be playing Paeon or MB which is -15% from time to time and those skills alone reduce that 20% from WM down to 5%, adding on that the mobility consequences, cast times and auto-attack restriction then no wonder DPS is not on par with other classes despite using WM.

Increasing WD is another partial solution but it is not the sole solution, WM is doubtful will be removed so it is best to make the skill more worthwhile and not so crippling of which can be done with auto-attack re-enabling to start with; WD increase on the other hand can be used/increased in combination with that to further balance the class or fine tune it. I have not yet had enough first hand experience to make proposals for Machinist though. There is a reason SE why these forums are not filled with 'fix [x] other class' compared to how many are present and popping up for Bard and Machinist, these two classes above all others need improving, Machinist the most but Bard second.

[yamochan]

No cast times on any skill. I suggested to remove WM altogether and replace with those suggested skills. With that change, BRD playstyle will remain exactly the same as 2.0, they won't be OP and they will still be competitive with a better chance at getting a raid spot.

good good im with ya ^^

[Cetonis]

The simplest and easiest solution to increasing DPS while under WM is for me removing the auto-attack restriction.

If SE does that, they should also make EA and IJ usable outside of WM, so that the gap between normal mode and WM mode doesn't become so large that it becomes correct to stay in WM for all but the most extreme movement cases. Nobody wants that kind of complete "removal" of the job, including SE, which is perhaps why WM is balanced so meekly to begin with.

Plus, non-WM Bard needs a boost badly anyway; every other DPS got a potency gain of some measure (Elixir Drive and extra ninjutsus are no joke, even if DRG got pushed harder) while Bard broke even with Sidewinder being counterbalanced by the Barrage nerf.

I don't hate this solution, if SE is willing to backtrack on their original setup. It's better than some of the other wacky things being tossed around.

[SethLex]

No cast times on any skill. I suggested to remove WM altogether and replace with those suggested skills. With that change, BRD playstyle will remain exactly the same as 2.0, they won't be OP and they will still be competitive with a better chance at getting a raid spot.

Hear, hear!

[yamochan]

what i find to be the biggest shame in all of this is that Sqaure still did not give us any feedback nothing from the gms or anything makes me wonder if they even care. even wow reacts faster and that says something

[Kayko]

Let's see here... Let me start with something that is very basic, an issue with the job 2.X and is continuing into 3.X.
It was mentioned much earlier (or in another BRD thread) that we should have never been penalized in the first place for having our songs then get penalized for using them. This has been the case since 2.1 and this needs to change. BRD has it's place in progression only. There are points were the songs are just no longer needed, why would anyone bring a BRD over an actual damage job at that point? Why should 7 others basically be penalized for continuing to bring the BRD with?

Okay, new abilities, well only one new ability that is the problem, WM: Casts times being added for WM is not that bad. Even with the casts times, BRDs have more 'basic' movement then others. You can move a decent distance while under WM to not be not see too bad of an overall damage penalty if you are paying attention to the encounters. With that, please get away from any sort of standing still buff. (I.E. anything that stacks as long as you don't move.) These fights force you to move, having to do simply do mechanics shouldn't be a damage penalty.

Increasing overall damage in and out of WM can be easily achieved by some simple changes.
1) Increase weapon damage. Put it on par with other damage dealers. This is just a flat out needed to even start fixing the job as a whole.
(first possible solution)
2) During WM changes: Remove the damage bonus from WM... Yes, correct, REMOVE the bonus. Basically have it add cast times as it does at this very moment. The reasons for this below.
2a) Allow auto attack during WM
2b) WM should be changed to an instant buff (ala Cleric Stance)
2c) Continue to allow EA and IA only to be used during WM.
2d) Allow WM to remove (or reduce drastically) the damage penalty while using other songs.
I think changing WM to be more like Cleric Stance will allow people to actually weave it in for a general damage increase while those that can stay in it for longer have overall increases then either weaving or just not using WM at all.

Okay, with that, the more exciting changes that can be done.
-Heavy shot now has a 30%+ change to proc straighter shot.
-Increase DoT potency when WB or VB are refreshed with IJ.
-Increase critical hit chance of damage over time effects. (more Bloodletter)
-Reduce TP costs overall
It can also change how songs work too which would be very nice to have. For example)
Under the effects of Wander's Minuet, In addition to their normal effects.
1) Mage's ballad will now refreshes a slight amount of TP for party members.
2) Army's Peon will now refreshes a slight amount of MP for party members.
3) Foe Requiem lowers physical resistance by X%

Giving reasons to use WM more often should have been the goal of the ability from the start (after fixing the job in the first place though)

[gzuscry]

To those natural idiots who think that our utility is anything meaningful if this percentage damage scaleoff keeps up. Need for TP regen can be negated very effectively if you pipe down a little bit in your TP consumption skills, just a little bit ... and go all the crit det acc way on gear. So its way better to get another tank instead of bard, they got a backup tank just in case and their dmg is even to us, if fights are tuned to keep bards/machinists in dooable content loop. Ppl will always go the most less restrictive play, If extra tank can do same dmg as bard and they get safty net to boot, we will be kept out of PF. I allready saw 3 tank compositions on PF - 3 tanks 3 dps and 1 healer for content were undersized parties are allowed, because warrior just does the job perfectly with relative easy.